Consumer electronics item broken in 2.5 years - retailer refusing repair

JJ_Egan

Corroded components due to damp/ condensation is another one .

marcosscriven

Thanks JJ Egan/Power Rogue for the clarification.

In my mind, all of those you mentioned were essentially 'user neglect', that you've used the device in a poor environment. But I see what you mean.

DaftyDuck

There's also the "chance" element to take into account. Yes, this one might have failed after 2.5 years, the next might last six, or ten... I've got a whole series of Pioneer AV receivers dating back nearly 20 years... they have all become obsolete over time, rather than die because of a fault. It would be my assumption that, if one of mine had died after about 3 years, it was a chance event, a result of dust, heat, overload, humidity, smoke from fires, pet hair, insect ingress.... whatever, and not likely an inherent fault. I wouldn't think it worth the cost or time to try anything other than a cursory enquiry for replacement.

Edit: I think you'd need quite a specialist investigation to prove otherwise (although indicating the likelihood it was insect/power surge/humidity etc. might be easy). To prove an inherent fault might well cost a few hundred quid, unless there's a well-documented series of fails recorded for a particular reason online, say. Otherwise, identifying the fault may cost, say, sixty quid. Proving it an inherent fault, another hundred or more. Repairing, that might cost sixty - one quid....

Stevie_Palimo

marcosscriven wrote: »

Thanks Stevie

I think you missed a word in your first sentence, but the meaning is clear - you don't think the court would rule in my favour?

The other way of looking at this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but if one's adult life is around 60 years, then buying 24 AV receivers over the course of that lifetime seems ridiculous to me. It's large, solid and heavy item, the core function of which has broken. It sits there completely untouched (controlled by remote).

The other thing is you mention these are sold quite cheaply, but this was far from a cheap model - it's a Pioneer one, and was £217 without any speakers.

Yes correct as to the Courts, And electrical items are renown dust gatherers so this may not be put down to a fault from manufacturing either, Personally I do think it will be time, money and hassle all added together that will reap no result for you.


I would imagine if you wish to chance it then yes maybe a Court claim form and as I said hope they bow down and say sod it we do not want to appear through to expense and so on against a such a low value item, The other point you make about 24 of the same item to last a lifetime will be a insufficient argument as we are more known these days as a throw away world with items costing less and being mass produced unlike the old days where lots of electrical items would be repaired due to the high build quality.


Good luck anyway.

marcosscriven

DaftyDuck wrote: »

There's also the "chance" element to take into account. Yes, this one might have failed after 2.5 years, the next might last six, or ten... I've got a whole series of Pioneer AV receivers dating back nearly 20 years... they have all become obsolete over time, rather than die because of a fault. It would be my assumption that, if one of mine had died after about 3 years, it was a chance event, a result of dust, heat, overload, humidity, smoke from fires, pet hair, insect ingress.... whatever, and not likely an inherent fault. I wouldn't think it worth the cost or time to try anything other than a cursory enquiry for replacement.

Edit: I think you'd need quite a specialist investigation to prove otherwise (although indicating the likelihood it was insect/power surge/humidity etc. might be easy). To prove an inherent fault might well cost a few hundred quid, unless there's a well-documented series of fails recorded for a particular reason online, say. Otherwise, identifying the fault may cost, say, sixty quid. Proving it an inherent fault, another hundred or more. Repairing, that might cost sixty - one quid....

Thanks - the idea about an 'insect crawling in' is amusing, but also a good example of something that's neither my fault, nor an inherent fault.

My overriding thought on all this though is SoGA seems well on nigh useless if absolute proof of inherent fault is required, rather than merely the official opinion of an independent expert. I've had so many things fail on me, and just been dismissed by the retailer, that I'm just getting to the point where I'd like to try out this process for once - not because it makes economic sense in this single situation, but to explore and maybe blog about why there's such a huge discrepancy between what all these consumer and government guides say, and what you can actually practically do.

wealdroam

marcosscriven wrote: »

My overriding thought on all this though is SoGA seems well on nigh useless if absolute proof of inherent fault is required, rather than merely the official opinion of an independent expert.

Absolute proof is not required.

County courts, the ultimate arbiter, work on the balance of probabilities. If the report says something like "the problem is due to the failure of an x-widget, and in my opinion this is because a poor quality x-widget was used", then it is likely the goods would be accepted as inherently faulty.

Of course, the law is open to interpretation, so there is no guarantee that every judge, when presented with the above scenario, would come to the same conclusion.

m0bov

Many people view SOGA as a free extended warranty. I think your best bet is to have it repaired. It might be a sticky relay or bad earth inside. £217 is very cheap for an AVR, they can cost up to a grand. This would also be taken into account.

InquisitiveMind

Planned obsolesence or rather products have a short life span. Companies have cottoned on to the fact that if their products only last so long, then consumers will go out and buy a new whatever, quite possibly from them. Companies are in it to make money, not to make the best possible product.

There could be a poor quality diode which dies. This could be common to each device (which the repairer may not know about). Does the product then become "faulty" if it's common to every other device? I would decide not, instead just avoid the manufacturer / product.

If you buy something cheap and use it 100 times a day, the expected life span of the item would may not be reasonably expected to last six years. The report would quite possibly not state that you used it heavily.

Judging by the costs involved, and the relatively low-value of the product along with the hassle of going to get a report, filling in court documents and presenting your case (and possibly losing) your initial spend could easily double if not triple in terms of cost and effort.

2 1/2 years is quite possibly a reasonable lifespan for something.

Also as someone who has "repaired" things that have stopped working by removing dust and dead insects that are inside it's possible that it could be something as simple as that. Maybe even a fall off the shelf you have it on could have damaged it, etc etc. There are a LOT of variables that could cast doubt in the mind of a reasonable objective mind that in my mind I would suggest you take it on the chin.

Your call though.

System

Forget the lifespan in years for a moment, how many hours use did you get out of it? One film a week or several hours a day? If it's a solid state piece of electronics, how different is it from a lightbulb? It will only last so long. What is wear and tear on such a device? Was it properly ventilated? Was it run at high levels, or used sensibly?

The sale of goods act doesn't give you a six year guarantee. The limitations act gives you six years to take action, in the same way a creditor has six years to chase a debt. After this period, even if you were supplied an item that was dead on arrival, you have no claim. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/5

If you are sending litigious emails, then you can expect short and to the point 'no' from most retailers. You don't have proof it's inherently faulty, just your own opinion. Unless they are having a slow summer, they won't interested in a long back and forth email debate on your rights, or at least your opinion on your rights. From their point of view, engaging with you will achieve nothing.

Whether the goods conform to contract and the question of reasonable durability can only be answered by a judge. If you want to take it that far, you will need evidence of an inherent fault.

Oh, and buy Yamaha next time

teabelly

I'd have a look on avforums and search your model number. If several other people have had the same failure then you have a much stronger case for inherently faulty. Whether you'd get anywhere at all and recover your repair cost is another matter.

This is why I buy from richersounds and get their longer warranty. Their supercare is now 6 years as standard. It's £9.99 or 10% of purchase price for items over £100 I think it is.