Freeze on car engine CO2 improvements

Johnmcl7

AdrianC wrote: »

If your idea of this "nothing fancy" petrol estate includes a list price of £40k+, of course...

You're right that the wholesale move to diesel has caused high NOx, but by 2017 everything new'll be Euro6 emissions, so very low NOx. 0.08g/km. 2000's Euro3 standard was the first to cap NOx - at 0.5g/km, halved for Euro4 in 2005.

Nope, just a Mazda6 - 193g/km puts it into the £1200 VED bracket under the new system.

Emissions tests fail to properly capture Nitrous oxide correctly as the newer and supposedly cleaner Euro 5 cars aren't as clear as they should be compared to older cars due to much higher levels of Nitrous Oxide emissions under DPF regeneration so it's likely even under newer regulations diesel cars are still going to be producing higher levels of nitrous oxide emissions. Plus DPF technology is bad enough in terms of the issues they cause engines, I'm on my first petrol as I'd had enough of diesels after having a DPF equipped car despite being very cautious to ensure I had a driving pattern suitable for the DPF. Further systems are likely to be worse yet.

Before anyone points out the apparent contradiction in having a petrol car with a high level of emissions and then highlighting emissions issues on diesel cars, I very rarely use the car as almost all my travel now is handled under pedal power. At least that's one good thing about DPF's as I started cycling to avoid any short journeys in the car. It does irritate me paying a large VED for something that is very rarely every emitting anything but that's the way the system is.

John

Aretnap

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Nope, just a Mazda6 - 193g/km puts it into the £1200 VED bracket under the new system.

Only for the first year though. After that, £140/year.

Admittedly that's quite an expensive first year. Not too much of an issue if you plan to keep the car for a long time, but people/companies that buy new cars every couple of years will have quite a big incentive to avoid gas guzzlers. And as they account for the bulk of new car sales, that means the system will still encourage the people who actually buy new cars to opt for smaller more efficient models. Which in turn means that people who buy second hand cars will hage the choice of a range of eco-boxes which would have been taxed at or close to zero under the old system, but are all taxed at £140 under the new one.

Clever!

AdrianC

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Nope, just a Mazda6 - 193g/km puts it into the £1200 VED bracket under the new system.

Only for year 1. Thereafter, £140. EVERYTHING non-ZE is £140, unless the list is over £40k, in which case there's an annual £310 uplift for the first five years.

AdrianC

Aretnap wrote: »

Admittedly that's quite an expensive first year.

If you're spending £22-28k on the car in the first place...

Strider590

Shocking...... Looking at the table, they're basically just trying to get people buy a new car every 12 months, with everyone paying the same VED after the first year of ownership.

We need to kerb consumerism, it's the production of these cars (and products in general) that is filling the environment with co2 and raping the planets finite resources.

Cars already on the road actually account for a very small percentage of the co2 being produced..........



That said, I saw this coming years ago, there was no way the Govt was going to continue allowing low emission vehicles to pay zero VED. Once they became more common, a change was inevitable.

AdrianC

Strider590 wrote: »

Shocking...... Looking at the table, they're basically just trying to get people buy a new car every 12 months, with everyone paying the same VED after the first year of ownership.

<scratches head>
If that was the case, why would they replace a scheme where most new cars sold get free VED for the first year, with one where almost all new cars sold pay more for VED in the first year than in subsequent years...? The only cars that don't pay more in the first year are those that would be free permanently under the current scheme...

'course, that ignores the subtle detail that on a £24k new car, there's £4,000 of VAT payable, even ignoring the VED...

Strider590

AdrianC wrote: »

<scratches head>
If that was the case, why would they replace a scheme where most new cars sold get free VED for the first year, with one where almost all new cars sold pay more for VED in the first year than in subsequent years...? The only cars that don't pay more in the first year are those that would be free permanently under the current scheme...

'course, that ignores the subtle detail that on a £24k new car, there's £4,000 of VAT payable, even ignoring the VED...

They want most of us driving tiny low emission cars and buying a new one every 12 months. If we get through twice as many cars, we pay twice as much VAT and the value of used cars will drop considerably. I see a future where cars are being scrapped after less than 5 years use, maybe not in the next 10 years, but certainly within the next 20.

Most larger cars are company vehicles so the VAT is mostly irrelevant, whilst the bigger prestige vehicles are owned by people who can afford to do whatever they like.

AdrianC

Strider590 wrote: »

They want most of us driving tiny low emission cars and buying a new one every 12 months.

Umm, the 2017-on scheme DISincentivises that, compared to the current one.

fred246

As long as it emits under 150g/km nobody is really going to be too bothered about the first year cost. If you take the total over 10 years a car emitting 99g/km will pay £1380 where a car emitting 149g/km will pay £1460. It seems to have removed the incentive that most people were developing to buy a lower CO2 emitting car. Why would a government purposefully do that?

Strider590

AdrianC wrote: »

Umm, the 2017-on scheme DISincentivises that, compared to the current one.

So your saying that people aren't going to buy a new car to avoid paying the high VED the second year? Of course they will.

Or rather they'll use the VED as an excuse to buy a new one every year, but either way it's the same result.