Sabotage and hatred: what have people got against cyclists?

wolvoman

lonestar1 wrote: »

I just wish they had to be licenced (ensuring a certain degree of training) Insured (Cyclists can still cause damage/Injury to others) and had to display some means of formal Identification i.e number plate.

Some form of MOT wouldn't be a bad thing either considering the number I see at night with no lights

The insured, licenced and registered motor vehicle drivers in this country manage to kill 5 people per week on average.

Tell me, how big is the danger from cyclists?




Oh and remind me how my car's MOT certificate means I always remember to switch my car lights on at night?

Cornucopia

brat wrote: »

I see many more motorists obstructing pavements than cyclists.

I've seen/heard this argument before, and it's nonsense. A moving bicycle is a significantly greater hazard (especially when ridden with a degree of recklessness) than a stationary car. That should be obvious.

Disclaimer: I have been run into by a cyclist on the pavement. He tried (unsuccessfully) to blame me for not looking where I was walking.

Unfortunately, this thread seems to be deteriorating into exactly the sort of tribal nonsense that the original article was commenting on. So well done on that.

Cornucopia

wolvoman wrote: »

The insured, licenced and registered motor vehicle drivers in this country manage to kill 5 people per week on average.

Tell me, how big is the danger from cyclists?

Obviously, you are not comparing like with like, or even like with bike.

silverwhistle

Not necessarily, if that car forces somebody, possibly with a pram, into the road. The point Brat was making, was the presence of cars where they shouldn't be, and I think his observation is perfectly valid.

There have also been lots of deaths through cars (and lorries) mounting the pavement, so when all is said and done cars are still the main danger, not some adolescent on a bike.

lonestar1

wolvoman wrote: »

The insured, licenced and registered motor vehicle drivers in this country manage to kill 5 people per week on average.

I dread to think how much higher that would be if anyone could legally drive a car with no lights, insurance, training or registration plate

Tell me, how big is the danger from cyclists?

I doubt anyone truly knows

Oh and remind me how my car's MOT certificate means I always remember to switch my car lights on at night?

Very tricky to turn a light on that isn't actually on a bicycle/car.

FWIW I fully agree there are some dreadful drivers on our roads but I do tend to give cyclists much more room on the roads purely because I currently cannot even assume they've heard of the highway code let alone read one.

I regularly get a bus to a pubs quiz night consume around 6 pints and return by taxi. A couple of other regulars cycle there drink considerably more and cycle 4 miles home, neither drives so if caught by the police I doubt anything could be done as theres no licence to take of them

Marco_Panettone

lonestar1 wrote: »

FWIW I fully agree there are some dreadful drivers on our roads but I do tend to give cyclists much more room on the roads purely because I currently cannot even assume they've heard of the highway code let alone read one.

If ever there was an argument AGAINST training and licences for bike riders it is this. You should give vulnerable road users more space not because of their level of skill, but because of the consequences if either party makes a mistake (and both people on bikes and people controlling motor vehicles do so).

brat

silverwhistle wrote: »

Did you get his number (it's normally he in my experience)? Will you be taking it further?

I think that, just like for some speeding you can do a speed aware course that there should be the equivalent Bike Aware course too. Although your incident appears to be sheer stupidity and maliciousness rather than a lack of awareness, of which I'm a lot more forgiving.

Yes I got his number, and no, I won't be taking it any further. I only have my word against his, which often makes for time consuming process. I could deal with half a dozen drivers a week for careless/dangerous driving, and I would soon have little time to do anything else.

For some careless driving offences there are Driver Improvement Courses available. These require the driver to accept his guilt, which doesn't often happen in such cases.

I get enough 'manner of driving' complaints to deal with without me adding to them. I ride on rural roads, and these drivers are often local. If I catch them offending when on duty, then my discretion tolerances will reflect my previous experience of them.

wolvoman

Cornucopia wrote: »

Obviously, you are not comparing like with like, or even like with bike.

The post I was replying to was asking for cyclists to be registered, insured and licensed. I was merely replying that there's no reason to suggest that is necessary at all.

The figures I quoted re-enforce that point.


Registering and licensing bikes and their owners will do nothing to help safety. It would, however, allow some angry car drivers to be less envious. But since licensing is done via VED, bicycles would be zero rated. And who do you think would pay for all the extra admin to include bicycles in the VED scheme? It wouldn't be the cyclists!

Insurance is a slightly different point, and it's one for common sense. I happen to be insured cycling, but there's little outcry for it to be a legal requirement.

lonestar1

Marco_Panettone wrote: »

If ever there was an argument AGAINST training and licences for bike riders it is this. You should give vulnerable road users more space not because of their level of skill, but because of the consequences if either party makes a mistake (and both people on bikes and people controlling motor vehicles do so).

Training is NEVER a bad idea and to argue otherwise is just ridiculous

Marco_Panettone

lonestar1 wrote: »

Training is NEVER a bad idea and to argue otherwise is just ridiculous

Your previous post suggests that if riders were all trained then you personally would give people on bikes less space. This would make the road more dangerous for vulnerable road users.


Give everyone plenty of space (1.5m) because it reduces potential harm and it's the right thing to do, not because they might not know the HC.