PCN to an employee - help please

HappyNewbie

Hi everyone,

I am a full time employee at an F.E. college which uses a PPC to patrol its car park. I received a PCN on my window 5 days ago because I had forgotten to put my permit in the window. The notice is for ‘£70 reduced to £40 if paid within 14 days’.

I don’t pay any sort of annual fee for the parking permit. My car details are registered with the College.

Where do I stand with this? Can I appeal on the basis of ‘No GPEOL’? Citizens Advice and others indicate ‘yes’, but Coupon-mad (post #2 in **NEWBIES!! PRIVATE PARKING TICKET … thread) indicates: ‘Do not assume this alone will work in your case though - start a new thread if unsure.’

The bottom line is that I did break the rules, or ‘contract’ by not displaying my permit. But £70 (or even £40) is very draconian.

Many thanks for any advice,
HappyNewbie

Coupon-mad

The bottom line is that I did break the rules, or ‘contract’ by not displaying my permit

That bottom line doesn't matter and won't feature in your appeal - the worst 'offence' is their extortionate charge.

You can use the template I wrote in the Newbies thread. Send it online if allowed (see the PCN) around day 22 - NOT YET - if this is a BPA member like F1rst Parking or UKPC, etc. The reason for waiting is explained in the newbies thread, I think. POPLA is winnable!

If it's an IPC member the appeal may have to be lodged a few days earlier but is really all a bit pointless as we don't recommend even trying the chocolate teapot 'IAS' which frankly, is a joke. It's certainly not consumer-friendly and decisions are laughable and bizarre, made by traffic lawyers who have as much clue about private parking contracts and the POFA and RELEVANT case law as 'Honest John' does. One may as well appeal to Will Hurley himself, the result would be the same.

Which PPC is it?

HappyNewbie

The PPC is Total Parking Solutions (TPS). They do allow appeals to be sent online and are a member of BPA.

A bit more info: I've tried appealing to the college to get the ticket cancelled, but there's no chance. On the TPS website they advertise that they give a portion of the 'profits' back to the college / uni / whoever employed them.

Thanks Coupon-mad I've read your NEWBIES thread and seen the template letter. Do you still advise to send that letter pretty much as it is? Also is there anything lost by appealing after, say, 12 days rather than 22? This way, I can still reply as 'keeper', but the charge is frozen at £40 rather than upped to £70 should the POPLA decision not go my way. I suspect NTK will be sent, but reading your thread I hope very much that it won't be.

What are the chances of winning at POPLA with the argument '£40 (or £70) is not a GPEOL'?

Thanks,
HappyNewbie

Redx

at the moment there is little chance of any popla appeal being won on "not a gpeol", which is why post #1 of the newbies sticky thread (you claim to have read) has the appeal point in BLUE for inclusion pending the Beavis case outcome later this year (in the Supreme Court in 3 weeks)

until that decision is made, popla are deferring those "not a gpeol" cases until at least november

you need to appeal as KEEPER around day 21 as advised above

no admitting who the driver was or is

HappyNewbie

Thank you both very much. On day 21 I'll be sending the template letter word for word online to TPS.

I'll speak to you in two weeks,
HappyNewbie

HappyNewbie

In the first appeal to the PPC Coupon-mad (in the Newbies Thread) states:

'Don't forget to include a copy of any receipts or bank transactions or proof of patronage'

Do you have any suggestions what I should include here? As a member of staff I have a staff card with my photo on it, which I'm not too keen on scanning and sending to the PPC. Also, won't anything with my name on it compromise the 'keeper / driver' argument?

Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

I would not include anything at all and not ID yourself as staff, just the registered keeper of the car. But please wait till day 23 or so as advised by the Newbies thread, for the good reasons explained there.

HappyNewbie

Thanks Coupon-mad, day 21-23 it is!

In one of zzzLazyDaisy's posts, s/he implied that in all these appeals and correspondence you need to keep in mind that a judge may eventually read it if it goes all the way. So you must always appear reasonable. But not giving the info that I’m staff is ok at this stage, right?

Also, is it worth deleting the name of the PPC in these posts?

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

Nah, no need to delete anything - TPS are fine and dandy to beat at POPLA and aren't a bad bunch. There will be no court.

The reason not to say someone is staff is because a 'consumer' (as opposed to someone acting in the line of business) can cite the POFA 2012 about keeper liability. You need to appeal as a consumer who is the registered keeper = use the template.

HappyNewbie

Hi everyone.

It has now been 72 days since I received the ticket on my windscreen. I appealed to the PPC on day 22 by email. It was rejected and they replied by email on day 54 also including the POPLA form. I don’t think that this email is a NtK. Looking at the wording of the POFA 2012 I don’t think that the email qualifies as a NtK because the email definitely did NOT


8. (2) e) state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver


8. (4) The notice must be given by—
(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

Does ‘leaving it at a current address’ include ‘sending by email’? But 8.(2) e) means that I’ve not received a NtK, and so if I include this in my POPLA appeal then it is a ‘slam-dunk’ winning point, right?

Many thanks, HappyNewbie

The_Slithy_Tove

Because you appealed to the Notice to Driver, there is no need for them to send an NtK, so forget that. Just get on with the standard POPLA appeal.