Accident; who's to blame?

brat

dacouch wrote: »

In a criminal court of law perhaps, as far as Insurers go and a civil court they will go with car A being at fault every time if car B denies they were indicating.

i'm not so familiar with the civil system. In essence, in many cases it would appear to judge in absence of the facts and despite the obvious. I understand that it may be too expensive to get to the truth, but to declare one driver 100% to blame for pulling out on another driver , when the given facts suggest it's entirely likely that the other had indicated too early does seem unfair.

Sometimes insurance companies come to the police for their report. If that report indicated that CarB had intended to turn left just after the junction that CarA pulled out from, and the police conversation with DriverB suggested that it's likely he indicated a little too early...

...would the insurance company change their view on proportionality of blame?

Strider590

Regardless of any indicating and regardless of where car B was actually going, car A shouldn't have moved until car B has started making their turn.

We don't know is the direction of car B, whether it was coming from the left or the right, this would change the scenario considerably, but not the blame.

OnanTheBarbarian

A good summary of applicable caselaw is found here:

http://www.horwichfarrelly.co.uk/wind-of-change-david-wickens-v-shahid-khan-hastings-cc-18-july-2012/

Double_V

As mentioned by other, Car A.

ben_m_g

Car A unfortunately, I have nearly been caught out twice with this.

Once on a mini roundabout car B indicated turned then changed his mind at the last minute to go straight over. Still indicating left.

Second time, at a T junction, Car B was indicating (no previous or following turning) only to drive straight past.

I wonder in these situations, (if my dash cam saw it) would I have been still to blame?

rdr

ben_m_g wrote: »

Car A unfortunately, I have nearly been caught out twice with this.

Once on a mini roundabout car B indicated turned then changed his mind at the last minute to go straight over. Still indicating left.

Second time, at a T junction, Car B was indicating (no previous or following turning) only to drive straight past.

I wonder in these situations, (if my dash cam saw it) would I have been still to blame?

And then there are the ones who leave the roundabout indicating right.

Astronaughtwannabe

brat wrote: »

i'm not so familiar with the civil system. In essence, in many cases it would appear to judge in absence of the facts and despite the obvious. I understand that it may be too expensive to get to the truth, but to declare one driver 100% to blame for pulling out on another driver , when the given facts suggest it's entirely likely that the other had indicated too early does seem unfair.

Sometimes insurance companies come to the police for their report. If that report indicated that CarB had intended to turn left just after the junction that CarA pulled out from, and the police conversation with DriverB suggested that it's likely he indicated a little too early...

...would the insurance company change their view on proportionality of blame?

They might depending on the experience of the decision maker or advice given thereto.

pendragon_arther

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

What's the 'overtaking signal'?

The arm is outstretched and turned in a circular movement indicating to other vehicles you are about to turn or stop and for them to overtake. Maybe this is why there's so many accidents nowadays because no one uses hand signals anymore, not like 30 - 40 years ago. Another hand signal is with the arm outstretched and is waved up and down to indicate you are slowly down and for other road users to overtake.

BTW how do you post images here?

Car_54

pendragon_arther wrote: »

The arm is outstretched and turned in a circular movement indicating to other vehicles you are about to turn or stop and for them to overtake. Maybe this is why there's so many accidents nowadays because no one uses hand signals anymore, not like 30 - 40 years ago. Another hand signal is with the arm outstretched and is waved up and down to indicate you are slowly down and for other road users to overtake.

BTW how do you post images here?

There is no "overtaking" signal.

The signal you describe means that you are about to turn left or pull in, i.e. exactly the same as the left indicator. In the OP's situation, therefore, the outcome would have been the same. Provided of course that the OP understood the hand signal. He should, it's all in the Highway Code, page 103.

Joe_Horner

pendragon_arther wrote: »

The arm is outstretched and turned in a circular movement indicating to other vehicles you are about to turn or stop and for them to overtake. Maybe this is why there's so many accidents nowadays because no one uses hand signals anymore, not like 30 - 40 years ago. Another hand signal is with the arm outstretched and is waved up and down to indicate you are slowly down and for other road users to overtake.

I assume for the second one you mean "and for other users not to ov ertake" - the up-and-down signal is the equivalent of brake lights, simply warning that you're slowing or stopping, rather than turning or pulling in.

Not that it matters because you see them so rarely nowadays. Unless you're headed towards a speed camera, in which case you may see someone giving a cheerful wave in greeting that might just resemble the "slow down" signal