Any driving instructors here?

Cornucopia

This is a situation where the explanation/critique of the rule concerns itself with a relatively uncommon scennario.

The common scenario is this: through traffic (i.e the straight-ahead direction) is blocked, and the box junction serves to keep the junction area clear. The right turn has a dedicated filter lane, and progress to the right-turn exit is blocked only by oncoming traffic. In that scenario, vehicles should queue within the box junction, and the normal rules of box junctions do not apply to them.

The uncommon scenario is like the above, except that the right turn exit is blocked (with stationary traffic, farm animals, roadworks or whatever). In this case, the exemption does not apply, and vehicles should not queue in the box junction, because they will be left stuck there even after oncoming traffic ceases. Assuming, as I said, that it is reasonable that they could see the blockage from their vantage-point behind the stop line in the right turn filter lane.

Astronaughtwannabe

A learner taught by parents has a far greater chance of passing the test than those who take professional lessons only. One very simple reason for that - they get hundreds of hours more practice and the test isn't as rigid as the myth portrays.

The majority go far too inexperienced due to the hourly rate of instructors (I'm not knocking instructors here) it's just a simple fact that people don't want to pay £20 odd quid an hour for long and want to pass the test as quickly and cheaply as possible.

bouicca21

I have held a licence for 25 years. The only accident I've ever had was no fault when white van man reversed into me.

That does not make me a good driver. Also I am pretty sure I'd not pass a modern test. I can no longer reverse round a corner, I'm crap at bay parking, can just about do parallel parking. When DD was learning to drive me and the then not ex got worried about the instructor telling her to remain in gear at red lights. We were both taught to go into neutral and use hand brake. Instructor told us that examiners like staying in gear as it shows clutch control.

I wouldn't dream of trying to teach anyone to drive. I would, and did, change my insurance to allow DD to practice once she'd had enough lessons.

Cornucopia

This is a good example of an issue more of fashion than good driving, though.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both approaches, and neither is wrong, IMHO. It would be disappointing if people were being failed on their tests for leaving the vehicle in gear at traffic lights (not least because my car uses the action of going into neutral to stop the engine temporarily to reduce pollution).

robbies_gal

i still cant agree astronuat-where are the statistics for that

most parents havent done the test for 20-30 years how would they even know what they were teaching is correct?

unless they sit there and say nothing id say its detrimental to have two different teachers at the same time

missbiggles1

Parents and friends should take learners out to give them experience but not aim to teach them or even to comment in most cases. Additional experience is vital to success but different methods of learning are quite the opposite.

Cornucopia

I find this notion of a 20-30 year "education gap" really strange.

For two reasons, I think -

- One, it suggests that the parents' driving no longer meets a reasonable standard, which I find difficult to accept.

- Two, it suggests that if the leaner adopted the parents' driving style and standard fully, they would fail the test even if they were an otherwise competent driver.

The general theory is that people in their 40s and 50s are probably the best drivers they are ever going to be, because they've typically lost the aggression and impetuousness of youth, have not yet started to experience significant degradation of eyesight or reaction-time due to old age, and have had lots of driving experience in different vehicles and different driving environments.

I learned to drive solely by driving during weekly lessons (neither of my parents drove). That is hard work, and I would definitely have found additional driving experience and/or advice useful.

Car_54

bouicca21 wrote: »

I have held a licence for 25 years. The only accident I've ever had was no fault when white van man reversed into me.

That does not make me a good driver. Also I am pretty sure I'd not pass a modern test. I can no longer reverse round a corner, I'm crap at bay parking, can just about do parallel parking. When DD was learning to drive me and the then not ex got worried about the instructor telling her to remain in gear at red lights. We were both taught to go into neutral and use hand brake. Instructor told us that examiners like staying in gear as it shows clutch control.

I wouldn't dream of trying to teach anyone to drive. I would, and did, change my insurance to allow DD to practice once she'd had enough lessons.

There are two separate issues. Not applying the handbrake is potentially an issue of safety and/or consideration, and so can be a fault.

Being in gear is more a matter of judgement. If the lights are going to be red for some time, or you're fourth in the queue, you'd be better to select neutral and relax, but it's not a fault. On the other hand, if you're first in the queue, the lights go green and you then take seconds to select first and get moving, that might be.

What it certainly isn't is a demonstration of clutch control.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

What I found was that I needed to discuss differences of opinion. I found it quite useful as usually by offspring were good at explaining the reasoning why they did what they did.

My role tended to be confined to observation (you find you see lots of things that they are not aware of), encouragement to make a move at the right time (interpreting other drivers' intentions and signals) and trying not to show the agony of the nail marks in the palms of my hand at certain stressful situations.

Both my daughters drive in a confident and acceptable manner, and fortunately I changed attitudes before encouraging them to drive over the speed limit to keep up with the flow of traffic and other old chestnuts.

The other time to set aside is after they have passed to do some motorway experience. Youngest wanted to do a 100 mile each way drive with friends and she had never done a long drive before. I insisted on accompanying, made her drive there and back (no sharing the drive and letting her off the hook) and we got stuck for 45 minutes in heavy traffic at the other end - result, clutch control transformed, and motorway skills transformed too - on the return she said "Oh, I get it now" and smoothly flowed from lane to lane whereas on the way down we had a few "moments".

Astronaughtwannabe

robbies_gal wrote: »

i still cant agree astronuat-where are the statistics for that

most parents havent done the test for 20-30 years how would they even know what they were teaching is correct?

unless they sit there and say nothing id say its detrimental to have two different teachers at the same time

I can't point you to the stats because they were never published as public realm documents. It was a crude method for the DSA to determine each instructors pass/fail rate and where there wasn't a licence no noted, it's assumed they were presented for test privately.