Taken to Court for “unauthorized occupation”… but I don’t even live there ?! Help !

Dannytyler

well done for telling the truth..... bit of respect gained there!

get all the info these guys and girls are asking for and post it up on here and theres many people on here who will be able to point you in the right direction

karakus

ok, here are a few excerpts from the court bundle:


“ on 16th December 2014 Mrs COUNCIL sent letters to both Mrs OTHER HOUSEMATE WHO’S LEFT IN FEB 2015 and mr Kakarus to notify them that Notice to Quit had terminated the tenancy and they were unauthorised occupants. They were informed that legal proceedings would commence. These letters are at pages 35 to 38“


“there has been no contact from Linda and no response to the Notices”


“a Use and occupation account was set up in the names of OTHER HOUSEMATE and KAKARUS, to enable them to pay a weekly charge for their occupancy between expiry of the Notice to Quit and the date in which possession is recovered. The charges were initially £144 per week and this increased to £145 per week on 6th April 2015. No payments have been made into the account and housing benefit is not in payment. The arrears were £ 2456 on April 2015”


In the documents there are 3 Defendants, me, Housemate and Linda: so who exactly are they asking the money from? Only me and Housemate received a bundle, not Linda. Is it because they think she’s not here? Or because they think she shouldn’t pay?


LETTER SENT ON 16TH DECEMBER TO BOTH ME AND THE OTHER HOUSEMATE:


“I enclose a copy of the Notice to Quit which was served on the Tenant [...] you are occupying the property in the absence of the tenant and without any licence and consent from the Council [...] the Council will ask the Court to make a money judgment against you to cover charges lost to the Council during your occupation. You will be liable to pay these charges, known as damages for use and occupations, from the date the Notice to Quit expires till the Council gains possession”


The stepfather always told me that he was paying the rent on time, when I asked him about the letters asking me to pay.


Now, stupid me, I have to admit I didn’t even read the letter properly and I didn’t even get to “legal proceedings”, I just forwarded to the stepfather, for a while before then I wasn’t even opening the post, I was just sending it to him and the mother.


EMAIL EXCHANGE BETWEEN ME AND STEPFATHER:


“[FONT=&quot]With regards to the letter from the council please allow me to sort this matter out when I return to London but in the meantime do not discuss this matter with anybody.[/FONT]”


Can I screenshot this and use it as my defence claiming psychological pressure? It was the “landlord” to me in this sham tenancy and I moved there at the end of 2012 when I was on a very low pay job. Also I didn’t really know the law regarding council property, having arrived here from France. Council property and private property to me were the same thing.


A FEW QUESTIONS:
1.

a) A) I always received order from him “forward the post to me, let me deal with it, keep shtum”, as they were my “landlord” I obliged. I had to. But they’re always travelling so never dealt with it properly ! Can I claim I have been the victim of a sham tenancy and psychological pressure?


2. I also already gotten print outs of my bank account to prove I paid rent to the mother’s account. Will this be enough to the court for me not having to pay the arrears? Or they won’t care?


C) How shall I prepare the defence beforehand and send it to the court? Or shall I just hand it in on the day?


4. I am also frantically looking for another flat, stressful times !!

5. D ) Letter also says “from the date the Notice to Quit expires till the Council gains possession”, if I go to the estate manager, hand over my keys and leave this weekend, will the charges be less? Will they stop at 20/06/15 ?


Please help !


Thank you

karakus

[FONT=&quot]alos how can I be liable to pay these charges if I didn’t agree to pay them in the first place? I didn’t sign any piece of paper, unlike Linda. She should pay, not me. Can I make this point with the court ?[/FONT]

karakus

anyone know any no win no fee inexpensive lawyers? as you may have realized I am on a low paid job and have no funds...

karakus

Cornucopia wrote: »

Way back in post #1, the OP talked about being given a payment card by the Council. We probably need to know more about that.

both me and the other housemate received a card on our name to use to pay the council, I thought it was a mistake. that plus the fact I had received order to just hand it over to the stepfather ... basically means I am in trouble

BUT HERE'S AN INTERESTING TWIST !
:
in the bundle there's an email from the repair department to the Estate Manager:

"I had a call from someone who claimed to be a friend of the tenant at XXXX address reporting a leaking toilet [THIS WAS THE STEPFATHER BY THE WAY] he said there would be someone there on Thursday, he said his name was Karakus [ME] , I asked him if he was the tenant , he said he wasn't and that the tenant was in Africa and he was living there temporarily. I asked him if the person waiting on Tuesday was his partner and he said he was his flatmate and occupied the other room in the property

[...] can you please carry out an occupancy check?"

the stepfather himself told them I was a flatmate, so he was aware I living there and paying the rent to them, surely? He can't deny that

can I use that as a way to support the fact that I was a part of a sham tenancy agreement that I was forced to take because of a lack of funds and rents in London being way too crazy in general? I will happily provid bank statement to court so they'll see how "rich" I am...

I am literally soiling myself !

Thanks

dacouch

Did you agree to start paying the council rent?

I think the earlier advice to contact Shelter is very good advice, they're a charity who help tenants

karakus

dacouch wrote: »

Did you agree to start paying the council rent?

I think the earlier advice to contact Shelter is very good advice, they're a charity who help tenants

thanks but... even if I am not a tenant in this case?

No, I didn't agree to pay council rent, but they are reframing it as "damages for use and occupation"... but surely I have to agree to them in the first place I reckon?? they can't just impose them?

the landlady had an agreed tenancy with the council which she broke... I have nothing like that

goodwithsaving

To be honest, this story has taken so many twists and turns it would beneficial to you, and others here, if you laid out (in bullet format) the simple, truthful facts. Even this flatmate has just come to light when we were all led to believe it was just you.

So. Who lives there? How long for each of you? The council tax amounts per month. The rent total you paid to this 'Linda'. Precisely (truthfully this time) what you understood to be the deal. Is there any truth to the hostel story?

I'm afraid it doesn't take a genius to work out that regardless of country, council property and private property are not the same thing.

So state the above and calmly, the action so far you have taken to resolve it.

Then maybe somebody will be able to help you if you help us out by being forthcoming with the information first.

Mojisola

dacouch wrote: »

I think the earlier advice to contact Shelter is very good advice, they're a charity who help tenants

You need to take all the paperwork you have and make an appointment with Shelter. If you can also write down a timeline of when things happened, that will help.

They will be able to advise you after they have all the facts clearly laid out.

Shelter helps anyone with housing difficulties - not just signed-up tenants.

HereBeDragons_2

You are in a bit of a mess, aren't you?

I've been taken to court previously as an unauthorised occupant of a council flat, though my circumstances were different to yours - I had no idea it was a council property that the tenant was subletting without permission. When I realised what was going on it all got very nasty, and the council came to my assistance - given they were going to get their property back with my help, it was in their interests to do so.

The extracts you have listed from your legal papers look very familiar. Whilst no tenancy exists between you and the council, because they have established that you are occupying their property, you are classed as an unauthorised occupant. The council have to name you as a co-defendant in their application to the court to regain possession of their property, along with the main defendant (their tenant). Once their Notice to Quit to their tenant expired, you become liable for the equivalent of rent because you are the person occupying the property - this is why you were given the payment card by the council. It isn't rent though, it's charges for use and occupation. For the council to call it rent would imply that a lawful tenancy exists between them and you, which isn't the case, so they are very careful not to call it rent.

Your biggest mistake has been not paying 'rent' to the Council from the date the Notice to Quit to their tenant expired. It looks like you continued to pay that to someone else, which is very unfortunate, and that is why the arrears now exist. I suspect that as far as the council are concerned the fact you paid that money to someone else is a matter between you and that other person, i.e. they are not going to drop their claim against you for that money, and it would be up to you to pursue that other person for your money back.

Did nobody from the council come round and discuss exactly the position you were in and how important it was to pay the 'rent' from the time the Notice to Quit was served? Councils have specialist housing officers who deal with these issues, and I could not fault the officer who helped me - she made sure I fully understood the situation and where I stood legally. It might still be worth you trying to have a word with one of their specialist housing officers about it, to see if they would take a sympathetic view of the fact you mistakenly paid rent to someone else after the NTQ expired. You could also ask them if the arrears would stop building up if you surrendered the keys, which I'm sure would be the case - do get it in writing if that's what you agree to do. That wouldn't stop them pursuing the claim for the arrears though. However if you're struggling to find a new place - and I know just how stressed you feel right now - then bear in mind that most council rents are less expensive than private rentals, so you may as well stay put and start paying 'rent' onto the card you were given, whilst you take your time to find somewhere new. Even if possession is granted on the court date, which is very likely, you won't be kicked out straight away. If you can show that you're now paying 'rent' then the judge would be more likely to agree to you staying for enough time to find somewhere else to live.

Whatever you do, you must attend the hearing and give your side of the story. Take as much evidence as you can about continuing to pay rent to the tenant's relatives after the NTQ expired, all the communication you have had with the tenant's family, and say that nobody from the council ever explained the situation properly to you or told you that you had to pay rent onto their account from the NTQ expiry date. You never know, the magistrate/judge might take a sympathetic view and decide the tenant is liable for the arrears (or a portion of them), rather than you.

Make sure you also check the claim the Council has made for arrears - is it correct? Do the dates add up? I say that because in my case the council's solicitor wrongly claimed that there were arrears on the 'rent' account and I hadn't paid anything - which was rubbish. If I hadn't spotted that and taken proof it had been paid, a claim could have been awarded against me for that money. Is anybody else apart from you and the tenant named as a defendant - if so, are the council claiming they are also liable for the arrears?

Finally, if the judgment is awarded against you for money, then make sure you come to an arrangement to pay it otherwise you will end up with a CCJ (County Court Judgment) which will trash your credit history.

Good luck. I'd also ring Shelter, they were very helpful.