PCN on company car - lease company already paid, is it too late to appeal?

Kolokithakia

Hello,
I received a PCN from CP Plus for overstaying the 2 hour parking limit at a motorway service station.


As I drive a company car, the PCN letter (dated 12th May) went to the car leasing company - the leasing company emailed me on 21st May to notify me of the PCN and to advise they had already paid it on my behalf (to take advantage of the reduced fee for early payment). I rang the leasing company to say I would be appealing the PCN and consequently wrote a letter to CP Plus stating the unreasonable charge and to ask them to provide evidence of how they calculate any loss of earnings, as this charge (£100) exceeds the cost of parking for over 2 hours (2-24 hours = £25), plus the fact I was parked at midnight on a Sunday evening and the fact the car park was empty did not result in any possible loss of parking charges from other paying customers. I also asked them to provide me a POPLA code so that I can appeal if needed.


I just received a letter back from CP Plus today stating:

This PCN was issued legally and correctly according to the British Parking Association Approved Operators Scheme.


We remind you that customers may only remain on site for a max. of 2 hours without paying for parking.


Given that the signage is displayed in compliance with all relevant laws and regulations, the fact that you were seemingly unaware of this is not considered a mitigating circumstance for appeal.


In light of this, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.


We note that this charge has been paid in full and the matter is now closed.

So 2 questions - because the leasing company has already paid the PCN, is it too late to do anything about it? And secondly, if I can appeal and CP Plus haven't provided the POPLA code, what do I do next?


Many thanks for any suggestions - I've tried to read through various threads on the forums, but all seem a little different and I've not come across one that discusses what to do if the PCN has already been paid.

Half_way

The lease company has paid it, but have they charged you?

and the critical very important bit is: what do the terms and conditions say?
specifically what do they say with regards to parking charges etc.
post them up here word for exact word and further advice can be given

but until you find out and post the exact wording of the terms and conditions for the lease vehicle not much more can be done other than speculation which is a waste of time.

Cygnus_Alpha

A not dissimilar thing happened to me several years ago but it was Wandsworth council rather than a PPC. (I wasn't even parked - a rogue attendant got my reg number when i was in a traffic jam). As the lease company had already paid it, the council would not entertain an appeal. The lease company then tried to charge my employer.

I then rang the lease company and said they shouldn't have paid it without giving me a chance to appeal. I also contacted the boss of the car scheme department to tell him I wouldn't be paying it and if they deducted it from my wages, there would be hell to pay. He said these were the conditions as set out on the internet. We argued a bit and then he said he would deal with it. They never charged me.

So as Half_Way says, check the terms and conditions with your employer/ lease company. And if the terms and conditions say you have to pay, then you should still argue like hell.

Half_way

This is not a fine, and its not a penalty, CP plus are not a statutory authority.
Technically its a speculative invoice.

now what do your terms and conditions say

Kolokithakia

Thanks for the responses so far. The original email from the leasing company advising me of the PCN states the following:

“Please be advised that we have received a penalty for your vehicle. Alphabet have paid this penalty and this will be recharged as per your companies’ current process.
Please find attached a copy of the penalty for your reference. If you wish to dispute this fine, please refer to the attached Guidance Notes. If you are successful and a refund is received by Alphabet, we will credit this back accordingly.”

The leasing company guidance notes are in a pdf and I can't figure out how to add it to this thread? - it basically states that the leasing company pays the PCN within 48 hours of receipt to take advantage of the “pay early” option and that any appeal should be dealt with directly with the issuer and if successful a refund will be issued.

To date, I have not received any further correspondence either from the leasing company or my employer about how the PCN charge would be passed on to me (I can only assume they would deduct it from my monthly pay as I can’t see how else they could do it to be honest) – I’ve checked my employer’s intranet pages for company car T’s &C’s and there is no mention of how PCN’s or any other kind of tickets/fines are handled (it only covers things like being responsible for maintaining the car in good condition, reporting accidents, driving safely, etc). So it looks like I need to find out more about how this part of the process works and post an update once I have more detail.

But I appreciate any additional inputs in the meantime – thanks very much!

Cygnus_Alpha

Hi Kolokithakia,

Mine was an Alphabet car as well! In my case it was a statutory fine issued by a council, yours is an unsolicited speculative invoice. Alphabet are being a bit dim (probably deliberately) because once you pay the "fine" you lose the right to appeal.

I would contact the head of the team that deal with the car scheme and put your points strongly. Basically what Alphabet are saying is that if any Tom, !!!!!! or Harry or me or some fraudsters send them an invoice, they will pay it and get the money back off you. Totally ridiculous. Say that you will refuse to pay it and that they should not deduct it from your salary and the correct procedure is for Alphabet to pass the invoice to you.

The head of your car scheme needs to apply some pressure to Alphabet.

Half_way

“Please be advised that we have received a penalty for your vehicle. Alphabet have paid this penalty and this will be recharged as per your companies’ current process.
Please find attached a copy of the penalty for your reference. If you wish to dispute this fine, please refer to the attached Guidance Notes. If you are successful and a refund is received by Alphabet, we will credit this back accordingl

I am in receipt of the above e-mail, however the attachment does not contain any reference to a penalty, penalty charge or fine., merely a speculative invoice.

to get text out of a pdf try copy and paste alternativly if you have access to google drive use that and link to the pdf via the share options

Fruitcake

Is the lease company a member of the BVRLA (Hire and Lease vehicle) acredited trade association? If they are, they are in breach of the BVRLA instructions to pass on lease details to a PPC if they receive a PCN, not pay it.

By paying it they have denied you the ability to appeal and that may constitute an unfair contract.

Unless the lease Ts and Cs specifically state they will pay private parking charges, they are completely in the wrong. Any reference to fines or penalty charges only applies to council parking tickets.

Kolokithakia

Thanks for the additional replies, I've posted the leasing company guidance notes to google drive but I now get an error to say as a new user I'm not allowed to post links? :mad:

Half way - I'll see if I can get more detail on the T's & C's from my employer about how they "Bill back" the charge to me.

Cygnus alpha - Interesting input from you, I'll chase up my employer on this to see what help they can give in trying to resolve this with Alphabet. What was the outcome for you?

Fruitcake - I found a page that lists BVRLA associate & corporate members - Alphabet is listed as a corporate member. Not really sure what that means as I know nothing about this topic...but I assume the answer to your question is yes they are a member?

I'll keep digging to try and find more detail tomorrow and post back here as I find stuff.

Thanks!

ColliesCarer

You can post the link broken and one of the forum members will stitch it back together again for you e.g change http:// as hxxp:// or leave spaces in the string

Also I recall a case from last year were the OP successfully managed to get a refund from the lease company as the T&Cs only related to Penalty Charges and did not cover Private Parking Companies. Will do some digging and post the link if I can find it

in the meantime use the Search the Forum Function (search posts) using Alphabet BVRLA and you should find some useful other posts like this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5217322

Cygnus_Alpha

Kolokithakia wrote: »

Cygnus alpha - Interesting input from you, I'll chase up my employer on this to see what help they can give in trying to resolve this with Alphabet. What was the outcome for you?


Thanks!

As mentioned earlier, they didn't charge me. The company and Alphabet must have sorted it out between them. Not sure what happened - I just made it clear I wasn't going to pay. It was about 7 years ago mind. And don't forget, mine was a proper fine not the fake one you got from a private parking company.