Cam belt

[simon]

forgotmyname wrote: »

Didnt the 2010 model go back to a belt? Except the ones where its a chain and a belt combo.

It is the belt / chain combo ! They said it was chain camshaft to camshaft, but the belt needed changing.

arcon5

So what actually has happened? And what was they asking permission to heat up on the phone?

Marktheshark

Why did they "recommend" it be changed without knowing the service history ?
Easy quick money to add the bill up or they detected a fault.

I would want a very firm answer as now it looks like they may have written off your engine.

I would be asking them for details of their insurers as it sounds they are negligent and have damaged the engine through incompetence.

The "we want permission and it might go wrong" is not really good enough.
I doubt it would get passed a county court judge as well.
They recommended the work and instructed you they were competent to do it and resulted in damaging the engine.
I would say that is why they have public liability insurance.

First thing would be to the the car away from these cowboys and to a main dealer, get the work done and invoice them for the repair to the damage they caused.

The automotive industry has this attitude it is never responsible, yes it is, can you see a roofer saying he is not liable for burning down your house putting lead flashing on ?

They recommended the work, they took the risks and would have expected to be paid had they not messed up and damaged the engine.

Time to fight back.

Retrogamer

Marktheshark wrote: »

Why did they "recommend" it be changed without knowing the service history ?
Easy quick money to add the bill up or they detected a fault.

How do we know the garage weren't aware of it's service history (or lack of)?

Marktheshark wrote: »

I would want a very firm answer as now it looks like they may have written off your engine.

From a snapped bolt? Come on, behave yourself.

Marktheshark wrote: »

I would be asking them for details of their insurers as it sounds they are negligent and have damaged the engine through incompetence.

How do you suggest a mechanic removes a bolt which is so tight that it will snap when you try and loosen it?
Please explain how they were negligent. What should they have done to remove the bolt which they didn't do?

Marktheshark wrote: »

The "we want permission and it might go wrong" is not really good enough.
I doubt it would get passed a county court judge as well.
They recommended the work and instructed you they were competent to do it and resulted in damaging the engine.
I would say that is why they have public liability insurance.

They recommended something should be done. it's up to the owner to accept that recommendation or not.
During the work they hit an unexpected problem. Rather than carry on with the work and potentially break something they knew was a risk, they done the right thing by calling the owner and explaining the situation to them and letting them decide what they wanted to do. What do you suggest they should have done when they encountered the problem?

Marktheshark wrote: »

First thing would be to the the car away from these cowboys and to a main dealer, get the work done and invoice them for the repair to the damage they caused.

Terrible advise. You can only claim off the garage if they were negligent. It seems like they've taken appropriate steps to ensure they weren't negligent. Even if they were, you have to give them a chance to put it right. If you don't, county courts would frown on it when giving judgement.

Also, i used to work for a main dealer and some of the shady stuff i seen mechanics do in there would make anyone cringe.

[/QUOTE]

Marktheshark

How do we define Negligence ?
Recommending extra work and writing off the engine ?

Sounds like a text book example to me.

Lets apply the same logic to the roofer example, need to blow lamp the flashing round the chimney mate, is that alright ?
Yeah sure...

Opps burnt the house down mate, but you knew the risks and agreed to them.

Does not wash does it, if they had any suspicion the work might result in a total economic loss of the engine then perhaps they should have explained the risk, not ask to heat a bolt up.
The other option was to stop work if they knew they had reached the limit of their competence.
Asking a lay person to accept the risks for incompetency is not going to wash.
They were doing the job, they quoted and accepted the work and they have the responsibility for damage caused by failure.

Motor garages seem to think they are some kind of special exempt business from duty of care ? It goes wrong, not us Gov.
I can understand the need to protect that idea, but it the real world it will simply not wash, you damage a customers goods, then under duty of care you bare responsibility for that damage just like any other trade.


I am also puzzled by the lack of basic engineering knowledge.
If they have snapped the head off the bolt, you know thats the bit that makes a bolt tight, why can they not remove the rest ?
The bit that was holding it in has snapped off.

My suspicion is the heated nothing up, they shafted up and looked for a way out by trying to shove an excuse on to the owner, the damage was probably already done before they even rang, if they did apply heat, they did it before and might have melted the alloy engine block hence the falling in line..

Personally I would offer them the opportunity to rectify the error or sue them

AdrianC

Marktheshark wrote: »

My suspicion is the heated nothing up, they shafted up and looked for a way out by trying to shove an excuse on to the owner, the damage was probably already done before they even rang, if they did apply heat, they did it before and might have melted the alloy engine block hence the falling in line..

You really are a bit of a clueless wonder, aren't you?

You reckon they got localised temperatures of 500-650+degC? On a huge great big heatsink with limited access? And not setting fire to anything else?

As for why they can't just wind it out...? Well, perhaps there isn't the access. And ever heard of threadlock?

tberry6686

If they have snapped the head off the bolt, you know thats the bit that makes a bolt tight, why can they not remove the rest ?
The bit that was holding it in has snapped off.

The head of the bolt is only there to supply a place to fit a spanner/wrench to for tightening/loosening and to stop the bolt going to deep. The threaded portion is the part that tightens.

Whether the garage was negligent is difficult to tell but I would not expect a snapped bolt to write off an engine.

Marktheshark

We could argue all day, the OP took his car to a garage for a routine service and they ended up wrecking his engine.
That is the facts of this case.
Anything else we only have the "garages" explanations for.

Luckily that is why we have case law and a legal principle of duty of care.

If you are so set in your ways to think the garage is in the right for shafting up an Engine they were asked to service and should walk away scot free landing the OP with a huge bill, then we are never going to agree, but I respect your opinion .

Personally I am recommending the OP :

Halts the garage immediately, they have done enough damage already to be trusted any further.
Has the car fixed elsewhere so they at least have a second opinion of what exactly has happened here.
Looks at legal remedies of recovering the loss from the garage that resulted in damaging the engine.

As to what the garage did, it's not worth trying to work out and argue over, the only fact is they have shafted the OP's engine up when he only wanted it serviced .

[simon]

Hi all thank you for your advise.

I must stress that as i write this my engine is not written off to my knowledge. However it does need repair from the damaged caused by the garrage.

I have an update today.

I have been on the phone with the garrage this morning.

I have not blamed anyone for the situation. However the garrage did say to me for the seccond time now that the damage caused is not their fault and it is the manufactures fault for putting the bolt in too tightly when they made the car. I will however ask for this in writing and seek advise should i start to feel uneasy.

The garrage said they have 2 options for me.

1 they get a speciallist to visit the garrage and drill the crank shaft, this again is 50/50 and may or may not be a sucess. This is the cheapest option and they option they want to take first.

If the above is a fail then option 2

2 take the car away to have the engine taken out and new crank shaft. This will cost me 1 grand on top of all other work snd servicing.

If option 1 fails and i have to pay for option 2 i will be asking for a writtern report / blame of the manufacture and seek advise.

I am making huge losses at the monent to my income and expencise, the garrage recomend i hire a car but again that will cost me even more money!

AdrianC

Ah, it's the bolt holding the main pulley to the crank? Ouch... Yes, that starts to make a lot more sense.

TBH, if it really was so tight/tightly locked it sheared rather than undid, even with heat to break any threadlock, I have absolutely no clue what they could have done to avoid it. But I'm sure Mark will enlighten us.

Mobile Spark Eroding kit should get it out without damage to the thread.

I'm not quite sure why you're preferring to sit at home and earn nothing rather than hire a car - the cost of car hire must be negligible compared to lost earnings, let alone your reputation and goodwill from the customers you can't be working with.