Will all providers comply with Ofcom's new rules from 1 July 2015?

thewinelake

Sorry that this thread has slightly been hijacked by myself, Zagfles and others to essentially complain that these measures are going to result in much higher costs to call these numbers (particularly from landlines - which dramatically reduces the ability of the consumer to avoid rip-off mobile rates).

I understand that Ian is more interested in whether or not telco's stick to the rules of notification.

I wonder if we should get our own thread for the whinge about Ofcom letting the consumer down by allowing arguably CLEARER, but by and large DEARER calls to these numbers.

Sure, these numbers will die out with time, but there is a matter of billshock and how much longer the public will suffer the costs of 08s.

Heck, I'll just start a thread anyway.

Apologies once again to Ian!

Ian011

The Ofcom changes will be seen to benefit the consumer. There's a far bigger picture than Access Charges. The Ofcom changes are the final step in a whole series of interconnected processes including changes to GP contracts to ban the use of 084, 087 and 09 numbers, the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013 requiring post sales helplines to use 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers, Cabinet Office guidance to government departments and public services to move their 0845 lines to 0300 and 0345 numbers, and the forthcoming regulation from the FCA for the financial sector requiring use of 01, 02, 03 and 080 numbers.

After 1 July 2015, organisations will need a very good reason to retain usage of 084 or 087 numbers and thereby imposing a Service Charge on all callers. No longer can they hide behind "calls cost X from BT, others may charge more" all the while denying they receive no financial benefit. Ofcom requires they declare the level of that benefit, in the form of the Service Charge, everywhere their number is advertised, and thereby clearly announcing the level of rip off that they continue to impose on callers.

If, three years ago, you had asked "When will HMRC, DWP, Tesco, Sky, HSBC, Barclays, etc stop using 084 numbers?" most people would have said "never" and yet, all of those organisations and many others like them have stopped using them in the last year or so.

zagfles

Here's the list of companies which still use 084/087 numbers that I posted in another thread. Note that some use 08 numbers for customer service. So much for regulation. It's about as much use as the TPS, or Phonepayplus. It was like when stores opened on Sunday when they weren't allowed to. These are major well known transport/travel companies, not fly by night (pardon the pun ) ones.

British airways:

http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/...cts/contact-us
New bookings: 0844 number.
Flight status: 0844 number
Minicom for the hearing impaired!! 0845 number

National express:
http://www.nationalexpress.com/home.aspx
Only number on the home page is an 0871 number.
And they charge extra for phone bookings. A "service charge" isn't going to put them off, is it, if they already specifically charge more for phone bookings.

Eurocamp:
http://www.eurocamp.co.uk
0844 number. Advertised as 1p/min from a BT landline. Now will be about 10 times the cost from a BT landline.

DFDS:
http://www.dfdsseaways.co.uk/custome...ice/contact-us
Page is headed Customer Services: yet 0871 numbers

Ryanair:
http://www.ryanair.com/ie/questions/...-calling-from/
New bookings & general queries: 0871 number

Irish ferries:
http://www.irishferries.com/uk-en/contact-us/
0871 number for bookings and customer support

Manchester airport lost luggage lines:
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/h.../lost-luggage/
Mostly 0844 & 0871 numbers.

Virgin holidays:
http://www.virginholidays.co.uk/contact-us
0844 numbers

Telestunt (callthrough):
http://www.telestunt.co.uk/accessnumbers.php
Loads of 0844 numbers advertised at 1p/min on BT.

Ian011

There will always be those who break regulations and laws.

There has been a high degree of compliance elsewhere.


Where a retailer, trader or passenger transport company offers only 084, 087 or 09 numbers for post sales helplines, Regulation 41(2) of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 gives the caller the right to a refund of any call costs incurred over and above whatever an equivalent call to an 01, 02 or 03 number would have cost.

zagfles

Obviously all the above websites will be updated by midnight with the service charge.

There's a van parked across the road with an 0844 number on it. I expect it to be repainted with the cost of the service charge by midnight.

I'm holding a pen with an 0871 number written on it, but no service charge! I'll expect someone will come soon to replace it with an Ofcom compliant pen.

Ian011

The major effect is the abandonment of 084 and 087 numbers.
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-hmrc-telephone-numbers
http://www.pituitary.org.uk/news/information-briefing-changes-to-our-0845-telephone-numbers/
http://www.nep.nhs.uk/news/crisis-line-numbers-changing/
http://www.nhsgrampian.org.uk/nhsgrampian/gra_display_simple_index.jsp?pContentID=9338&p_applic=CCC&p_service=Content.show
http://www.sandwell.gov.uk/news/article/3378/new_phone_numbers_for_key_council_services
http://www.wellingborough.gov.uk/news/article/1037/new_number_for_council_payment_line
The date is no coincidence.

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

The major effect is the abandonment of 084 and 087 numbers.
http://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-hmrc-telephone-numbers
http://www.pituitary.org.uk/news/information-briefing-changes-to-our-0845-telephone-numbers/
http://www.nep.nhs.uk/news/crisis-line-numbers-changing/
http://www.nhsgrampian.org.uk/nhsgrampian/gra_display_simple_index.jsp?pContentID=9338&p_applic=CCC&p_service=Content.show
http://www.sandwell.gov.uk/news/article/3378/new_phone_numbers_for_key_council_services
http://www.wellingborough.gov.uk/news/article/1037/new_number_for_council_payment_line
The date is no coincidence.

They're a bit late - I thought all govt/NHS were supposed to have got off these numbers ages ago?

Ian011

Cabinet Office guidance was published on 26 December 2013 with no deadline date other than the clear knowledge that from 1 July 2015 (originally 26 June 2015) all remaining users of 084, 087 and 09 numbers are required to declare the Service Charge for their number everywhere the number is advertised.

NHS services were advised in 2009 to stop using these numbers. Most did. Others denied the 0844 or 0845 call costs were expensive or that they receive a financial benefit. Declaration of the Service Charge reveals that they do and exactly how much it is, hence the change of number happening now.

System

Apparently, neither of Finarea's 2 (or so!) staff has heard about 1 July. 18185's website is still offering calls to 0845 and 0870 (but not 0844 or 0843) at the rates I've pasted below. Presumably these prices have to be construed as bundled access+service charge. And presumably someone at Finarea will wake up when they start being stung for higher termination rates on (some?) 0845 and 0870 ranges, including the now explicit service charges.

18185.co.uk rates per 07-01-2015

Rates are in pence per minute.
Calls are billed per minute rounded to the nearest penny, include 17.5% VAT and are subject to change.
Calls are subject to a 4p connection fee or 5p for calls within the UK.

UK fixed ................................................... 0.0 p/min
UK mobiles (sat/sun) .................................. 7.0 p/min
UK mobiles (weekdays) ............................... 6 p/min
0845 (sat/sun) ........................................... 3 p/min
0845 (weekdays 6pm/6am) .......................... 3 p/min
0845 (weekdays 6am/6pm) .......................... 3 p/min
0870 (sat/sun) ........................................... 2 p/min
0870 (weekdays 6pm/6am) .......................... 3 p/min
0870 (weekdays 6am/6pm) .......................... 3 p/min

Ian011

A number of landline and mobile providers appear to have failed to comply with the new rules.

Access Charges do NOT appear to have been declared on these websites:
Vodafone Home Phone
Sainsbury Mobile
Lebara
The People's Operator
White Mobile
Delight Mobile
Family Mobile
GT Mobile
Kingdom Mobile
Vectone
Eclipse
18185
1899

They still list old style prices, including charges for calls to 080 numbers.