Will all providers comply with Ofcom's new rules from 1 July 2015?

Ian011

While the cost of calling 084 and 087 numbers may be going up on some networks (and the cost of calling 09 and 118 numbers coming down on many), in general the cost of calling post sales helplines, government departments, public services, NHS bodies and banks is going down because they no longer use 084 and 087 numbers and instead are swapping to 03 numbers. This is the most important effect of the change in regulation.

martinjohn

I suspect most of those organisations were changing over to 03 numbers in any case, i doubt regulation has made them switch over. Apparently the regulations aim was to make charges clearer, im more confused than ever :rotfl:

i frequently dial a 0844 number and now have absolutely no idea how much it will cost to use from the 1 july, the organisation has not indicated what their service charge will be?

Does anyone know?

Also if the organisation changes the price of the call when will be informed of this!

This is the sort of thing that governments and regulation should stay out of!

According to ofcom "Until now, callers to these numbers have not generally been told by the service provider how much they will be charged."
This is not true, although maybe not as simple as it could be to read, the price of every call is shown on virgin medias published price list for calls costs.
A better system may have been to force the phone companies to ensure every call has a definitive price displayed clearly on their literature, if it is not already.
Thenless i am misunderstaning something At the moment this new system seems insaine! This will cause mayhem with people being overcharged due to not being told the correct price of calls!

thewinelake

thewinelake

Martin - you could try this site: http://telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm

Ian011

It has taken years to get regulation in place to force the migration to 03 numbers. Many users of 084 and 087 numbers are unaware they are imposing extra charges on callers which subsidise the additional costs the business incurs in running a non-geographic number. From 1 July they have to declare this as the Service Charge.

It's inappropriate to impose a Service Charge on calls to post sales helplines, which is why 084, 087 and 09 numbers are not classed as 'basic rate' numbers. This affects the interpretation of the Consumer Contract Regulations. Likewise, the forthcoming requirement to declare the Service Charge focussed minds in the Cabinet Office and exposed the fact that usage of 084 and 087 numbers by public services was inappropriate. Until that point, users argued that because BT charged 084 and 087 calls less than out of bundle 03 calls that 084 and 087 numbers were OK. This failed to look at the wider picture including the fact that some BT rates have been capped by regulation that is exclusive to them meaning BT rates are non-standard and vary from everyone else.

Currently, 084, 087 and 09 numbers have over 300 price bands depending on the number called and each price band is charged at a different rate depending on which landline or mobile provider you use to make the call.

Most people are unable to trawl through price lists that are several hundred pages long to find the price of that particular number. From 1 July they won't have to.

Phone providers will scrap hundreds of pages from their price lists and show just a single Access Charge for all 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers.

Service providers will no longer show the call cost as if it were made from a BT line, they will declare their share as the Service Charge. Those that fail to do so can be reported to ASA or PhonepayPlus as appropriate. There will also be a number of sites where you can look up the Service Charge, but the source document for all of the official data remains the Carrier Price List published by BT.

Currently, the call price can vary according to the time of day or day of week. That will no longer be allowed. Connection fees will be scrapped too. The 300 price points have also been reduced to 80.

This is a major change and it will take some time for it to bed in. London phone numbers changed to a single 020 area code in 1999 and yet 16 years later some people are still incorrectly quoting London numbers as if there were multiple area codes. There aren't. Some people just can't adapt to change, but that doesn't mean the change shouldn't have happened.

zagfles

martinjohn wrote: »

I suspect most of those organisations were changing over to 03 numbers in any case, i doubt regulation has made them switch over. Apparently the regulations aim was to make charges clearer, im more confused than ever :rotfl:

As are most people it seems. But Ofcom keep telling us it's much clearer.

i frequently dial a 0844 number and now have absolutely no idea how much it will cost to use from the 1 july, the organisation has not indicated what their service charge will be?

Does anyone know?

The service charge is unlikely to be the main cost. The main cost is likely to be your phone company's access charge. Virtually all phone companies have taken the opportunity to profit massively from this opportunity Ofcom have given them. Virgin's access charge is here:

https://my.virginmedia.com/customer-news/articles/servicenumbers.html

10.25ppm from landlines and 36ppm from mobiles.

The service charge is likely to be peanuts in comparison.

Ian011

zagfles wrote: »

Virgin's access charge is ... 36ppm from mobiles.

Virgin Mobile currently charges 41p per minute for calls to 0845 numbers, of which they retain 39p and pass on 2p per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute.

Virgin Mobile currently charges 41p per minute for calls to 0843 and 0844 numbers, of which (depending on the exact number called) they retain between 40p and 36p per minute and pass on between 1p and 5p per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute on all of them.

Virgin Mobile currently charges 41p per minute for calls to 0871 and 0872 numbers, of which (depending on the exact number called) they retain between 40p and 31p per minute and pass on between 1p and 10p per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute on all of them.

On calls to 09 and 118 numbers, they sometimes retain more than a pound per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute on all of them.

zagfles

Ian011 wrote: »

Virgin Mobile currently charges 41p per minute for calls to 0845 numbers, of which they retain 39p and pass on 2p per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute.

Virgin Mobile currently charges 41p per minute for calls to 0843 and 0844 numbers, of which (depending on the exact number called) they retain between 40p and 36p per minute and pass on between 1p and 5p per minute. From 1 July, they will retain 36p per minute on all of them.

So like I said, the service charge will be peanuts in comparison. All the telcos must be rubbing their hands at adverts which will say something like "calls cost 1p/min plus your phone company's access charge". Rather than "....calls from mobiles will be considerably more".

Anyway, not sure why you're assuming the PP was using a mobile? What's the comparison for Virgin landlines?

Ian011

zagfles wrote: »

What's the comparison for Virgin landlines?

The landline comparison is a little more tricky as the retail call price consists of a per call connection fee as well as a per minute rate. In all cases the amount passed on is the same irrespective of whether you are calling from a landline or from a mobile or which provider you use.

In the case of 0845 numbers, Virgin Media charges 17.5p connection then 10.22p per minute and, as before, 2p per minute is passed on.

For a 1 minute call, the caller pays 28p, so Virgin passes on 2p and retains 26p, i.e. retains 26p per minute.

For a 10 minute call, the caller pays £1.20, so Virgin passes on 20p and retains £1.00, i.e. retains 10p per minute.

For a 70 minute call, Virgin retains 8.22p + 0.25p per minute, basically 8.5p per minute.

On an infinitely long call, Virgin would retain no less than 8.22p per minute.

Given the average call is only a couple of minutes long (many people hang up after just a few seconds) the 10.25p per minute Access Charge from 1 July will be a significant price drop on short calls.

Presumably, they have added up the revenue currently earned from all 084, 087, 09 and 118 calls and divided it by the projected number of call minutes to arrive at the new Access Charge figure.

Additionally, connection fees are banned on calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers from 1 July 2015.

Ian011

With less than 48 hours to go until Clear Call Rates for Everyone must be implemented by all retail landline and mobile providers, it is concerning to see that a number of providers have nothing at all on their website about the forthcoming changes:

Lebara
The People's Operator
White Mobile
Delight Mobile
Family Mobile
GT Mobile
Kingdom Mobile
Vectone
Eclipse
18185.com
1899.com

Given that most networks usually give 30 days notice of impending price changes, there must now be a strong suspicion that some of the above will fail to comply with the new rules.

If you're a customer of one of these networks, now would be a good time to ask them whether they will be complying with the new rules, whether calls to 080 numbers will be free from 1 July 2015, and how much the Access Charge for calls to 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers will be.