Wood pellets boilers

rockchick113

I'd love some info on the reliability of these wood pellet boilers
We have been thinking of having one installed along with solar panels.
But the price is stupid and is it worth it ? I know long term price of gas etc, but the pellets aren't cheap,
We have been quoted 18k for the biomass system and 7.5k for a 14 panel solar system linked to the biomass boiler.
The biomass is Okofen and the solar is LG
Any info would be appreciated

zeupater

Hi

For a comparison much depends on your current heating fuel type, whether you've got access to mains gas etc, the amount of heat you need, the size of the boiler, what it includes (automated feed, hoppers, dry fuel storage etc), your levels of insulation - and, of course, the current overall energy efficiency levels of your property .... etc, etc ...

... first observation though .... panels look pretty expensive, so, without any further information, I'd naturally assume that the quote for the boiler is too ...

HTH
Z

[Deleted User]

Kitty litter boiler, yeah that price is just plain daft like the highly inflated quote for PV.

What fuel are you on now?

Friends have a pellet boiler, works great, only just as expensive as oil when oil was dearer!

RHI makes it worthwhile then it's rip out and replace come seven years...

Ask yourself, can you be bothered lugging heavy bags of kitty litter round the back of your house, cutting it open, sometimes wiping all the snow and ice off the top of the boiler for six months of the year?

rockchick113

We do have mains gas, we are in a very large old farm house,not the best of building to insulate, we have done what we can on that. I know over 7 years we will get the cost of the biomass system with the incentive of the government payback scheme. I'm just trying to work out if it will ever be cheaper then gas to run, considering the price of gas will keep rising

[Deleted User]

Overall mains gas would be the best option. I would look at other measures to improve insulation/reduce bills.

Cheers

zeupater

saxonman wrote: »

We do have mains gas, we are in a very large old farm house,not the best of building to insulate, we have done what we can on that. I know over 7 years we will get the cost of the biomass system with the incentive of the government payback scheme. I'm just trying to work out if it will ever be cheaper then gas to run, considering the price of gas will keep rising

Hi

What's your average annual usage on mains gas ? & have you really done what you can on insulation ? .... eg - for starters, how deep is your loft insulation ? ....

On fuel alone, gas will cost ~4p/kWh with pellets at around 5p/kWh (£230/tonne), add in boiler efficiencies and you're probably comparing ~4.5p(gas) to 6p(pellet), so +1.5p/kWh.t ...

Now, £18k for biomass vs £2k for gas boiler over 7 years and usage at +1.5p/kWh ....with RHI at 7.14p/kWh, and taking the additional energy cost away we get 5.64p(7.14-1.5), so the decision breakeven point would be somewhere above 40000kWh of heating energy purchased/year ((16000/7)/0.0564), of course, on a current cost basis and excluding finance etc ....

At that level of pricing, if you currently use 50-60MWh of mains gas/year it's probably worth looking at, below that then it's marginal ... and of course, after the RHI scheme ends, you'll be paying more for fuel and will probably end up replacing it all with something cheaper to run ...

(All rough costs!)
HTH
Z

rockchick113

we've sacked the idea, due to silly prices, and not thinking straight.
Thanks for all the info.
Thinking of just going with the solar and getting an hot-water tank fitted, but how would that affect the combi boiler.

captainhindsight_2

Renewables are always the way to go, with lower running costs and the RHI income it is very rare there is a better alternative. You should be able to get a biomass boiler installed from £10k for a automatic cleaning manual fill boiler with a good warranty £3-4k for a automatically fed hopper install. Solar pv should be able to get from £5,500 for a 4kw installation.

zeupater

captainhindsight wrote: »

Renewables are always the way to go, with lower running costs and the RHI income it is very rare there is a better alternative. You should be able to get a biomass boiler installed from £10k for a automatic cleaning manual fill boiler with a good warranty £3-4k for a automatically fed hopper install. Solar pv should be able to get from £5,500 for a 4kw installation.

Hi

So, £14k installed ?? .... then the breakeven becomes 30000kWh/year (((14000-2000)/7)/0.0564) and at £10k it's 20000kWh/year (((10000-2000)/7)/0.0564). For an average household using (or, more importantly, having an assessed requirement of) 16500kWh/year for space-heating the fully installed cost would have to be ~£8500 ((0.0564*16500*7)+2000) to break even with installing a new gas boiler ... if replacing a perfectly good existing boiler it's £6500 ... and this doesn't include the relative up-front financing cost or even an allowance for mechanical component maintenance or end-of-life replacement at which time the RHI scheme would have likely expired ...

As can be seen from the figures, unless the fully installed cost of pellet boilers significantly reduce (probably by 60%+) then, even including RHI income over 7 years, they are really a totally uncompetitive heating source for a reasonably sized property where mains gas is available. Larger properties can reach breakeven with RHI and very large properties could even turn a RHI profit, but unless the scheme results in a serious fall in equipment & install prices, similar to that seen on pv over the last 5 years, it's almost certain that the RHI scheme will be (/have been) withdrawn by the time that the pellet boiler requires replacement, therefore it's almost a certainty that there'd be a move back to mains gas, in which case, what's the use of allowing the RHI scheme in these cases (average size, efficient houses with mains gas available) ....

HTH
Z

captainhindsight_2

Your figures are so wrong.

Say capital cost is £10,000 more than an oil boiler. With a combined RHI income plus the fuel savings (data from directgov) biomass has a total benefit of 8.54p/kWh over oil and 9.24p/kWh over lpg. So to recoup this capital cost and break even in 7 years you would need a annual heating consumption of 16,728kwh if switching from oil or 15,461kWh if switching from lpg, This does not allow for the widening gap between biomass and fossil fuel prices and the actual life time of a biomass boiler being circa 20 years making the pay back much quicker than this and the RHI income being subject to an EPC which often states higher consumption figures as are carried out using a worst case scenario methodology. And with 16,500 kWh being the mean household heating consumption (data from ofgem) this means that the majority of households will be better off with a biomass boiler over an oil or lpg boiler. And that is a FACT.

zeupater

captainhindsight wrote: »

Your figures are so wrong.

Say capital cost is £10,000 more than an oil boiler. With a combined RHI income plus the fuel savings (data from directgov) biomass has a total benefit of 8.54p/kWh over oil and 9.24p/kWh over lpg. So to recoup this capital cost and break even in 7 years you would need a annual heating consumption of 16,728kwh if switching from oil or 15,461kWh if switching from lpg, This does not allow for the widening gap between biomass and fossil fuel prices and the actual life time of a biomass boiler being circa 20 years making the pay back much quicker than this and the RHI income being subject to an EPC which often states higher consumption figures as are carried out using a worst case scenario methodology. And with 16,500 kWh being the mean household heating consumption (data from ofgem) this means that the majority of households will be better off with a biomass boiler over an oil or lpg boiler. And that is a FACT.

Hi

.... and what happens if the member in question (saxonman) has mains gas available (as confirmed) and the discussion revolves around a pellet boiler replacing mains gas for heat provision ???? .... would the above-referenced post then become irrelevant and the statement 'Your figures are so wrong' be proved substantially incorrect ?? ....

HTH
Z