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Can I force ex to move his debt off my card?

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3.5 years ago my long term partner was in some credit card bother and asked if he could move 16k of it on to my 0% interest credit card until he finished a job he was doing (in 3 months) that had a large profit at the end. He is a builder (a cowboy version) and messed up the job and I ended up with this debt sitting on my card. He continued to pay the minimum payment. I managed to pay £11k off with some money I received on a PPI reclaim but with moving the remaining debt around cards plus interest there is currently around 7k left sitting on the card. I split with him 2 years ago and things have turned pretty nasty. He has now decided to cease any payment towards this debt (or any other debt such as banks/credit cards/builders merchants etc) and has no credit rating at all due to the mess he gets himself in to as a builder. I have the paperwork that proves this money was transferred from him to me and I have proof that he paid towards the debt for about 10 months - I wondered if anyone had any experience of success or knowledge that if I took him to court, would this be proof enough that he is responsible for this debt.
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  • grumbler
    grumbler Posts: 58,629 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    rennies wrote: »
    ... I have the paperwork that proves this money was transferred from him to me and I have proof that he paid towards the debt for about 10 months - I wondered if anyone had any experience of success or knowledge that if I took him to court, would this be proof enough that he is responsible for this debt.
    I don't have any experience, but IMO the transfer doesn't prove anything - like any money transfer on it's own.
    E.g. it can be a gift, a loan, a payment for something.

    Future payments can possibly be used as an indirect proof, but again, they don't prove that the total amount transferred originally was a 'loan'.
  • undaunted
    undaunted Posts: 1,870 Forumite
    I would have thought that by transferring it to your card in law it is now actually your debt as far as the card issuer is concerned I'm afraid.

    That's not to say that you can't try sueing your ex for the money, just that the card co.s will pursue you regardless of whether you win or lose.

    If you do go to court I would have thought a Judge may note the transfer from, him and draw a conclusion from the fact that he was paying it that he acknowledged this to be a loan and not a gift. Does he have any assets that would enable you to recover the money and costs if you went to court and won though?

    On a 16k debt you'll also have to consider possible costs implications should you lose. Do you have any legal cover, as part of an insurance policy for example that may help you assess the prospects of a successful recovery?
  • Foxy-Stoat_3
    Foxy-Stoat_3 Posts: 2,980 Forumite
    Did you write up a loan agreement, stating repayment terms, interest etc?

    Was transfered from a personal credit card or a business credit card?

    You will need some sort of prove if you do take this to court. If you get a result, what is the likelihood of getting paid and reclaiming your costs?

    Business card account, he could easily wind up the company and start again - you get nothing.

    Personal account and if he can prove he is potless, you may get a tenner a week.

    You may be able to put a CCJ on him for 6 years and you may or may not get any money back.
    "Dream World" by The B Sharps....describes a lot of the posts in the Loans and Mortgage sections !!!
  • rennies
    rennies Posts: 17 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    Thanks for the replies. It doesn't look hopeful does it? Debt was transferred from his personal credit card not business. I am working 5 jobs to keep my head above water while he runs 2 cars and lives the life of Riley. Must be nice to walk away from debt you don't fancy paying. This is the father of my children - delightful.
  • undaunted
    undaunted Posts: 1,870 Forumite
    Do you know who those cars belong to & what they are worth then? IE if they are on finance they are not really his for you to take but if he bought them with for example cash, a credit card, personal loan etc & he owns them outright rather than a finance co. they could be seized by baliffs to pay off any CCJ you obtained.

    Sounds a charming guy so you & yours might even enjoy seeing that happen :p

    I hope you're certain that he's at least paying his Child maintenance & taxes, otherwise the CSA & Inland Revenue might want to have a chat with him. ;)
  • rennies
    rennies Posts: 17 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Combo Breaker
    He doesn't pay his taxes as he doesn't declare his earnings therefore the CSA cant get anything from him. The cars he does own outright but he states that if they were seized he wouldn't work (his van is for work) and I would get no maintenance at all. So the threat of bankrupting him hasn't worked which is why I need to know if I went after him through the courts, if it was likely to work or if I would end up in a worse situation with court fees etc.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 2,175 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker Name Dropper
    If you transferred the debt to your card, I believe it's now your debt. The card company will be able to prove that.

    Then, as a seperate matter, your ex has a debt to you. It's up to you to prove that, then maybe consider hauling him through the courts for it.
  • InsideInsurance
    InsideInsurance Posts: 22,460 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    As above, the card debt is yours, you accepted liability for it when you transferred it onto your card.

    Separate to that he may owe you the money if you can substantiate that you did loan him the money rather than gift it to him. Did you document anything to say it was a loan rather than a gift? Unfortunately too often these things are actually gifts and when the relationship turns sour only then does the giver/lender decide that actually they want it considered to have been a loan instead.

    Ultimately in a civil court of law it comes down to the balance of probability so basically who the Judge believes most. Depending on how blended your finances were with your long term partner prior to the split may reflect on the level of significance that "he" continued to pay it
  • andyfromotley
    andyfromotley Posts: 2,038 Forumite
    Hmmm,

    tbh i would just work on the principal that the debt is now yours and you will have to pay it off. It really really sucks i know but your ex does not sound like the sort that will be easy to get any money out of.

    It may be worth a quick visit to a solicitor but i think realistically your chances of getting any money out of him is very low.

    Never ever forget this very painful lesson!!
    £1000 Emergency fund No90 £1000/1000
    LBM 28/1/15 total debt - [STRIKE]£23,410[/STRIKE] 24/3/16 total debt - £7,298
    !
  • undaunted
    undaunted Posts: 1,870 Forumite
    edited 2 June 2015 at 5:21PM
    rennies wrote: »
    He doesn't pay his taxes as he doesn't declare his earnings therefore the CSA cant get anything from him. The cars he does own outright but he states that if they were seized he wouldn't work (his van is for work) and I would get no maintenance at all. So the threat of bankrupting him hasn't worked which is why I need to know if I went after him through the courts, if it was likely to work or if I would end up in a worse situation with court fees etc.

    Baliffs can't usually take the tools of someones trade so he'd be left with tools, van etc. The cars / other assets could probably be seized. He still has to live too so personally I wouldn't let him bluff / bully you with the I wouldn't work argument - he's counting on you falling for that line & getting away with it.

    Even if the worst came to the worst & he stopped paying maintenance until the csa catches up with him would you be better or worse off? IE Would recovering 16k (assuming the cars / other assets will cover that) be better in your hand than the maintenance on drip?

    As to not paying his taxes / the csa not being able to touch him, you could always discreetly contact the Inland Revenue to have that looked into https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF?dept-name=TEH&sub-dept-name=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

    I'd imagine they'd be interested to hear from him how a man with no declared income manages to run 3 vehicles, a business, pay maintenance, run his own home etc!

    You may find that a local solicitors would offer you a short free appointment to discuss the prospects of winning this in court but if not, for a 16k debt could / would you invest £60 or so to find out their opinion?. If you are still worried about costs after that you do of course have the option of limiting your claim to 10k - thus likely to be allocated to the small claims track & avoiding anything beyond fixed costs even if your claim was unsuccessful.
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