Not Impressed With Evans Halshaw

Joe_Horner

arcon5 wrote: »

Risk of injury? Lol just brilliant..

No, it's a valid point.

Manufacturers go to great lengths to pad / round / generally soften up anything that you might bounce off. A lot of that is to comply with legal requirements for type approval. A glove box lid flapping around loose compromises that, so it's a safety issue, just as fitting that mythical spike to the steering wheel would be.

Suggesting that the car might be rejected for it is a little absurd, but no more absurd than a dealer deciding they're not going to spend a hundred quid to sort it out. Their margins may be tight, but I doubt they're running at less than the 3% gross that would be required to cover this!

The fact it was working when bought doesn't make much, if any, difference because the time scale falls well inside any definition of "reasonable time" for assumed faults at sale. In that case it's up to the dealer to show that it was damaged after sale. A catch / hinge / whatever that's just barely hanging on by its fingertips and fails a few days later is exactly what that assumption in SOGA is intended to cover.



eta: Motorguy is right that the easiest practical solution may well be to just sort it yourself, but that's not the same as saying that's the only solution, and it's the assumption that people will take the easy solution that allows dealers to provide this sort of shoddy service.

Approaching them with all the right (but polite) noises for someone who knows where they stand, knows that EH are responsible for it and will happily take the inconvenience of making them accept responsibility just on the principle of it is likely to get that "goodwill" repair. You don't have to actually follow through with the inconvenience - you just need to make them believe that you will

Moto2

You could maybe get them to agree to reimburse you (up to a limit), if you were able to find a used one?

motorguy

Joe_Horner wrote: »

The fact it was working when bought doesn't make much, if any, difference because the time scale falls well inside any definition of "reasonable time" for assumed faults at sale. In that case it's up to the dealer to show that it was damaged after sale. A catch / hinge / whatever that's just barely hanging on by its fingertips and fails a few days later is exactly what that assumption in SOGA is intended to cover.

The onus is on the dealer to prove the fault was not there at the time of sale under the SOGA. It wasnt. The glovebox was closed at the time of sale, therefore proven that the fault wasnt there.

The fault therefore has developed - for whatever reason - subsequently.

If this did go to court the dealer could already say they resolved the bonnet latch and tried to help the buyer find a second hand glove box.

But lets be honest, it wont go to court over a £30 second hand glovebox.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

eta: Motorguy is right that the easiest practical solution may well be to just sort it yourself, but that's not the same as saying that's the only solution, and it's the assumption that people will take the easy solution that allows dealers to provide this sort of shoddy service.

The easiest way to resolve shoddy service is to vote with your feet. Its a £30 part second hand, they wont fix it, therefore live and learn and dont use them again. Tell your friends and put it on an internet forum.

Joe_Horner wrote: »

Approaching them with all the right (but polite) noises for someone who knows where they stand, knows that EH are responsible for it and will happily take the inconvenience of making them accept responsibility just on the principle of it is likely to get that "goodwill" repair. You don't have to actually follow through with the inconvenience - you just need to make them believe that you will

Indeed, and thats inline with what i said. Poke them hard, but if they wont play ball, i really would Let Go.

arcon5

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No, it's a valid point.

Manufacturers go to great lengths to pad / round / generally soften up anything that you might bounce off. A lot of that is to comply with legal requirements for type approval. A glove box lid flapping around loose compromises that, so it's a safety issue, just as fitting that mythical spike to the steering wheel would be.

Oh please. It's a damn glove box. If you hit it with enough force to do any damage then your seat belt is faulty.

Quit with the melodrama.

Joe_Horner

motorguy wrote: »

The onus is on the dealer to prove the fault was not there at the time of sale under the SOGA. It wasnt. The glovebox was closed at the time of sale, therefore proven that the fault wasnt there.

The fault therefore has developed - for whatever reason - subsequently.

If this did go to court the dealer could already say they resolved the bonnet latch and tried to help the buyer find a second hand glove box.

But lets be honest, it wont go to court over a £30 second hand glovebox.

SOGA also covers incipient faults in the same way as fully evident ones - in fact that's what the timescale is there for - fully developed faults (like the glovebox hanging open during the test drive) could reasonably be expected to be seen at sale or shortly after.

"It was working but so worn it was just about to fail" is an incipient fault, and they'd have to show that it wasn't in that state when sold.

I agree that it wouldn't get to court for a £30 part (or even an £80 new one), but that's only because the buyer is unlikely to take it that far. EH would be in a weak position if it did, and it'd rapidly get more expensive than the repair for them. In fact, even if they successfully defended it, the cost is likely to be more than the repair.

So a buyer who convinces them that he's the rare git who'll go that way on principle, and regardless of inconvenience, is in a very strong position even if it's a bluff.

Joe_Horner

arcon5 wrote: »

Oh please. It's a damn glove box. If you hit it with enough force to do any damage then your seat belt is faulty.

Quit with the melodrama.

That'd be the same melodrama that brought about all the legal requirements for padding etc after countless smashed knee caps that the manufacturers kept insisting weren't a problem, I guess.

The unpadded edge of an open glove box isn't going to be a nice thing for a body-part to encounter at speed, and will be considerably closer to the occupant than the parts that the seatbelt is intended to keep you away from. Depending on design / layout (I don't know the Zafira so may not be an issue in this case), it may also interfere with an airbag deployment and an airbag being distorted as it inflates can do a lot of damage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm honestly all in favour of cars that will seriously injure you in the smallest parking bump - it's probably the only way to stop people crashing in the first place.

But society, in its wisdom, disagrees and has dragged the manufacturers (often kicking and screaming) into line over "safety". The effect of that is that things that interfere with the designed standards do matter as far as society and the law are concerned whether you or I like it or not.

arcon5

Right, so an open glovebox is a serious fault due to it potentially distorting the way the airbag is deployed.

Now you're just having a laugh!

Maybe we should bring out new laws prohibiting glove boxes being opened whilst a vehicle is in operation.

arcon5

Buy a bloody glove box off ebay or a scrap yard and be done with it. It's a used car, components don't last forever, it's a very immaterial issue and frankly your expectations are unrealistic if you think a car dealer should be expected to be responsible for every defect, however small. Wear and tear is not a statutory right.

Joe_Horner

arcon5 wrote: »

Right, so an open glovebox is a serious fault due to it potentially distorting the way the airbag is deployed.

Now you're just having a laugh!

Maybe we should bring out new laws prohibiting glove boxes being opened whilst a vehicle is in operation.

You really don't get it, do you? The law sets standards for car interior design that prevent sharp / hard / protruding edges and features that may interfere with other safety equipment like airbags. That's not my decision, it's the law.

If the model had been submitted for type approval with a loosely flapping glove box lid then it wouldn't have passed, any more than if it had been submitted with no seatbelts, braking on 2 wheels only, or that damn spike on the steering wheel. Those are the standards set, and those are (broadly) the standards the consumer can expect when buying.

On your thinking, faulty ABS shouldn't be a dealer's responsibility either because any competent driver will never trigger it anyway and, even if they did, the seatbelts and airbags should save them so what's the problem :huh:

In case you hadn't noticed, I also suggested that the practical solution would be to get a new (or used) lid and fit it. But that is a matter of choice for the Op, not something he should feel is his only option.

Joe_Horner

arcon5 wrote: »

Wear and tear is not a statutory right.

Err, yes it is if it's worn and torn virtually to the point of failure at the time of sale and fails within a short time after (in this case "a few days").

Otherwise nothing that was minimally working at the time you bought it would ever be covered because it would have just "worn out" since. That attitude from sellers is exactly what SOGA was intended to combat in the first place.