Help needed !

motorheed

hi

i am 51 had many many years suffering from mental health
decided as times running out to help myself by getting a job

cut very long story short , was loving my job the perfect position helping my ailments as i started at 3am and finishing around 11am , by that time i am getting nervous getting anxious the occasional panic attack but in the knowledge i was finishing soon managed to get through it.
this was june 2013 i started but i lost my job june 2014 & am in the process of going to a tribunal (very unlikely i will manage now) to try get what is rightly mine
in the meantime i had to claim JSA but as times went by stress really mounting up to the point i feel ill most days suffer severe panic attacks stay in , a hermit , in a bad place mentally.

now my Dr on seeing me for my heart medications monthly could see i was not right & we finally had a good talk which immediately afterwards wrote out this fit note saying i am unfit for work. full stop.

so i am going to make a new claim for whatever benefit entitled to but do not know what to do
i have had years of mental health problems well documented on file with my Dr plus the psychiatrist i seen over the years.

so could someone tell me what i should do with this fit note , i am meant to sign on next tuesday but i am not producing my job notes/applications etc therefore should i just take this in to show them (really not wanting to as i take panic attacks again daily!!!) or send it in & download ESA forms plus PIP forms to make a new claim?

i am at a loss as to what i should do
any suggestions welcome
many thanks

rogerblack

Phone ESA, and make a claim immediately.
If you have not been doing jobsearches, and your JSA will be sanctioned, claim backdated to the time that you stopped doing these due to illness.
If this was before the time of the note, then you may need a further backdated note.
If it's not, or it is only 7 days gap, there is no issue.

billywilly

motorheed wrote: »

hi

i am 51 had many many years suffering from mental health
decided as times running out to help myself by getting a job

cut very long story short , was loving my job the perfect position helping my ailments as i started at 3am and finishing around 11am , by that time i am getting nervous getting anxious the occasional panic attack but in the knowledge i was finishing soon managed to get through it.
this was june 2013 i started but i lost my job june 2014 & am in the process of going to a tribunal (very unlikely i will manage now) to try get what is rightly mine
in the meantime i had to claim JSA but as times went by stress really mounting up to the point i feel ill most days suffer severe panic attacks stay in , a hermit , in a bad place mentally.

now my Dr on seeing me for my heart medications monthly could see i was not right & we finally had a good talk which immediately afterwards wrote out this fit note saying i am unfit for work. full stop.

so i am going to make a new claim for whatever benefit entitled to but do not know what to do
i have had years of mental health problems well documented on file with my Dr plus the psychiatrist i seen over the years.

so could someone tell me what i should do with this fit note , i am meant to sign on next tuesday but i am not producing my job notes/applications etc therefore should i just take this in to show them (really not wanting to as i take panic attacks again daily!!!) or send it in & download ESA forms plus PIP forms to make a new claim?

i am at a loss as to what i should do
any suggestions welcome
many thanks

I would be very surprised that you would gain enough points from the PIP descriptors if all that you would be claiming for would be the problems related to Panic Attacks and/or stress!

I have a frontal lobe brain injury, been sectioned, and still am receiving help from the CMHTOP after 20 years and have been recently diagnosed with early onset of dementia after having numerous tests but the problems that I have because of those didn't warrant any points when I claimed PIP.

billywilly

motorheed wrote: »

hi

i am 51 had many many years suffering from mental health
decided as times running out to help myself by getting a job

cut very long story short , was loving my job the perfect position helping my ailments as i started at 3am and finishing around 11am , by that time i am getting nervous getting anxious the occasional panic attack but in the knowledge i was finishing soon managed to get through it.
this was june 2013 i started but i lost my job june 2014 & am in the process of going to a tribunal (very unlikely i will manage now) to try get what is rightly mine
in the meantime i had to claim JSA but as times went by stress really mounting up to the point i feel ill most days suffer severe panic attacks stay in , a hermit , in a bad place mentally.

now my Dr on seeing me for my heart medications monthly could see i was not right & we finally had a good talk which immediately afterwards wrote out this fit note saying i am unfit for work. full stop.

so i am going to make a new claim for whatever benefit entitled to but do not know what to do
i have had years of mental health problems well documented on file with my Dr plus the psychiatrist i seen over the years.

so could someone tell me what i should do with this fit note , i am meant to sign on next tuesday but i am not producing my job notes/applications etc therefore should i just take this in to show them (really not wanting to as i take panic attacks again daily!!!) or send it in & download ESA forms plus PIP forms to make a new claim?

i am at a loss as to what i should do
any suggestions welcome
many thanks

I would be very surprised that you would gain enough points from the PIP descriptors if all that you would be claiming for would be the problems related to Panic Attacks and/or stress!

I have a frontal lobe injury, been sectioned, and still am receiving help from the CMHTOP after 20 years and have recently been diagnosed with early onset dementia after numerous tests but the problems that I have because of those didn't warrant any points when I claimed PIP. In fact they considered that they weren't relevant or appropriate for PIP. They simply ignored them.

densol_2

Although I tend to disagree with Billy a lot of the time - i do agree about PIP. Its just not designed for many mental health issues. I get 50% industrial injuries disabilty but 0 points for PIP as I can walk ( although nervous ) and make a coffee and toast. Im on ESA at the moment.

Good luck with the tribunal - i had to give mine up - it was beyond belief stressful.

rogerblack

billywilly wrote: »

I would be very surprised that you would gain enough points from the PIP descriptors if all that you would be claiming for would be the problems related to Panic Attacks and/or stress!

4 points - 'needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to express or understand complex verbal information'.
If half of the time, you cannot reliably and when needed do this without prompting from a helper, due to panic attacks, or are actively avoiding this activity because it is too stressful - this could qualify.

4-8 points - 'needs social support to be able to engage with other people' or 'cannot engage with other people' If most of the time, or some of the time it's required most days this can't be managed due to panic attacks.

2 points 'making budgeting decisions' - likewise.

10 points 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, ...', if due to the panic attacks they can't do this more than half the time, without help, but could with help.

The bare descriptors are not so promising.
However, these cannot be read in isolation, they must be read with the definitions. A person may qualify as an aid, if they are needed to complete the activity.
You cannot complete an activity if you cannot do it:
As and when reasonably needed, on more than half of the days you need to do it, in a time that does not exceed twice the normal persons time, safely and reliably.

'Cannot' in a descriptor does _NOT_ mean 'cannot ever'.

billywilly

densol wrote: »

Although I tend to disagree with Billy a lot of the time - i do agree about PIP. Its just not designed for many mental health issues. I get 50% industrial injuries disabilty but 0 points for PIP as I can walk ( although nervous ) and make a coffee and toast. Im on ESA at the moment.

Good luck with the tribunal - i had to give mine up - it was beyond belief stressful.

You and everybody else is entitled to disagree with what I say. I am sometimes a bit of a lose cannon. I know that and probably get right up many people's noses!
But in everything I say there is always a point to my observations.

Still, I will concur with you and the comparison with IIDB and PIP. I get 40% IIDB for life. Originally back in 1996 until 2004 it was 80% then over the following years it dropped to 60% and then to 40%.
Those awards were made entirely because a mental health issue. I had regular 2 yearly reviews with the final one taking place in 2012 when it was made for life.
I also received DLA HRM & MRC from 1995 to 2014. The mobility element had nothing to do with the mental health issues. However the Care element was in the main for mental health needs.
Looking back, it all seems to fit in quite nicely with each benefit backing up the other and all having F2F assessments.

Now come PIP in 2014, my mental health issues became redundant. So much so that they were considered insignificant by both ATOS and the DWP. The report generated by ATOS actually stated that I had never suffered from mental health matters. Like you I have IIDB for mental health impairments???

I know what you mean about stress and claiming benefits. I physically could not face arguing or appealing against the PIP notice which gave me no points at all for care or mobility! I just had to accept what the DWP had arrived at to keep my sanity.

motorheed

Thank you very much for your help.
the note was given to me on tuesday but it's still sitting in front of me
i will make a new claim for ESA 1st thing tmrw as i have stopped looking for employment and as said i will get sanctioned which leaves me no option.

thanks for the help

appreciate it

shegirl

densol wrote: »

Although I tend to disagree with Billy a lot of the time - i do agree about PIP. Its just not designed for many mental health issues. I get 50% industrial injuries disabilty but 0 points for PIP as I can walk ( although nervous ) and make a coffee and toast. Im on ESA at the moment.

Good luck with the tribunal - i had to give mine up - it was beyond belief stressful.

It's not really as simple as that for PIP, although you are right that a lot of people who previously may have been eligible for DLA,particularly low rate, may not be eligible for PIP.

However, just reading the descriptors alone or the questions on the form without looking at the info and thinking of it widely, is not the way to go and is what unnecessarily caused panic among people when it came in.

Sorry to hear about ESA for you though, I remember reading about you setting up your business

billywilly

rogerblack wrote: »

4 points - 'needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to express or understand complex verbal information'.
If half of the time, you cannot reliably and when needed do this without prompting from a helper, due to panic attacks, or are actively avoiding this activity because it is too stressful - this could qualify.

4-8 points - 'needs social support to be able to engage with other people' or 'cannot engage with other people' If most of the time, or some of the time it's required most days this can't be managed due to panic attacks.

2 points 'making budgeting decisions' - likewise.

10 points 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, ...', if due to the panic attacks they can't do this more than half the time, without help, but could with help.

The bare descriptors are not so promising.
However, these cannot be read in isolation, they must be read with the definitions. A person may qualify as an aid, if they are needed to complete the activity.
You cannot complete an activity if you cannot do it:
As and when reasonably needed, on more than half of the days you need to do it, in a time that does not exceed twice the normal persons time, safely and reliably.

'Cannot' in a descriptor does _NOT_ mean 'cannot ever'.

I really wonder what the DWP would make of that submission?
PIP was intentional in attempting to stop what was happening with DLA. Trying to stretch to breaking point how any disability and the needs arising from it could fit a descriptor. You have displayed exactly what was wrong about about DLA.

billywilly

shegirl wrote: »

It's not really as simple as that for PIP, although you are right that a lot of people who previously may have been eligible for DLA,particularly low rate, may not be eligible for PIP.

However, just reading the descriptors alone or the questions on the form without looking at the info and thinking of it widely, is not the way to go and is what unnecessarily caused panic among people when it came in.

Sorry to hear about ESA for you though, I remember reading about you setting up your business

Not just low rate mobility/care
In fact many with the higher rates of DLA are falling foul of PIP and are not getting any awards at worst and standard rate at best. That was the 2nd of the two parts that PIP was meant to address .
The closing down of the way people tried to stretch DLA to meet almost ANY perceived need whether they were actually disabled or not and the OVERALL reduction in what DLA was costing by 20%
Unlike DLA (which was in the main self certifying) PIP is evidence based. Evidence to prove that the claimed needs actually exist, why they exist, can they reduced with aids and appliances, and above all regular in depth reviews of ALL awards.
And in the OP's case, if PIP is actually awarded for stress and panic attacks, then the system is not working as it should. There are people living with awful disabilities, many of which have made their life intolerable, yet they are being refused PIP.