Help needed !

shegirl

billywilly wrote: »

I really wonder what the DWP would make of that submission?
PIP was intentional in attempting to stop what was happening with DLA. Trying to stretch to breaking point how any disability and the needs arising from it could fit a descriptor. You have displayed exactly what was wrong about about DLA.

If you have in fact applied for PIP, then you will know that, after the question itself, there are bits to explain/extend the meaning of the question which, for some questions, also include the word 'anxiety'. You'll also know that the form comes with an information booklet giving a bit of further clarification on each question and what the 'help' for each question could include

billywilly

shegirl wrote: »

If you have in fact applied for PIP, then you will know that, after the question itself, there are bits to explain/extend the meaning of the question which, for some questions, also include the word 'anxiety'. You'll also know that the form comes with an information booklet giving a bit of further clarification on each question and what the 'help' for each question could include

Yes I have applied
Yes I did have DLA - HRM & MRC for 19 years
No I haven't been awarded PIP - no points.
Yes the system appears to be working as I am one of the 20%
I suffer from anxiety every day! Sometimes it stresses me out so much so that I panic about the simplest of things. That doesn't mean to say that I should be given PIP. I don't know anyone that doesn't suffer from anxiety and stress - throughout my working life of 44 years every year had anxiety and stress built in - in fact I was once described as a person that thrived on stress - the more stress I was under the better I performed.

I know there is a little box to fill in. I did that explaining briefly what problems I was having which were caused by my disabilities. The rest was up to ATOS and the DWP to get the evidence that they needed to support those statements. It does also say on the claim from and in the little book you mention that you are not expected to submit any evidence you don't have already. I sent my repeat prescription list!

shegirl

billywilly wrote: »

Yes I have applied
Yes I did have DLA - HRM & MRC for 19 years
No I haven't been awarded PIP - no points.
Yes the system appears to be working as I am one of the 20%
I suffer from anxiety every day! Sometimes it stresses me out so much so that I panic about the simplest of things. That doesn't mean to say that I should be given PIP. I don't know anyone that doesn't suffer from anxiety and stress - throughout my working life of 44 years every year had anxiety and stress built in - in fact I was once described as a person that thrived on stress - the more stress I was under the better I performed.

I know there is a little box to fill in. I did that explaining briefly what problems I was having which were caused by my disabilities. The rest was up to ATOS and the DWP to get the evidence that they needed to support those statements. It does also say on the claim from and in the little book you mention that you are not expected to submit any evidence you don't have already. I sent my repeat prescription list!

There are different levels and ways anxiety manifests though and if you don't need specific help.. Of course,that applies to everyone though

billywilly

shegirl wrote: »

There are different levels and ways anxiety manifests though and if you don't need specific help.. Of course,that applies to everyone though

But who is to say that the anxiety and stress I used to have was greater, the same or less than what the OP is purporting to have? Or is it simply down to the fact that there are people like myself that used to thrive on it, whereas others were it would leave them in bed unable to cope?

If so, then it's got nothing to do with the level, but the ability or inability of the person. Some are weak some are strong.

I presume therefore that you are suggesting that the weak are awarded PIP but not the strong. Then you have the problem of fairness. And let's be honest if that is how it is being measured, who is actually going to admit that they can cope if saying they can't gives them another £100 a week in their hand.

Mrs_Ryan

I have panic attacks so severe that they cause me to have seizures. I am in a nearly constant state of anxiety. Don't write off the side effects of panic attacks as not being disabling...

shegirl

billywilly wrote: »

But who is to say that the anxiety and stress I used to have was greater, the same or less than what the OP is purporting to have? Or is it simply down to the fact that there are people like myself that used to thrive on it, whereas others were it would leave them in bed unable to cope?

If so, then it's got nothing to do with the level, but the ability or inability of the person. Some are weak some are strong.

I presume therefore that you are suggesting that the weak are awarded PIP but not the strong. Then you have the problem of fairness. And let's be honest if that is how it is being measured, who is actually going to admit that they can cope if saying they can't gives them another £100 a week in their hand.

:rotfl: :roftl: you cannot thrive on true,strong anxiety. It is not possible. It's nothing to do with strength or weakness.

My severely autistic son suffers extreme anxiety due to his autism. That anxiety leads to manic uncontrollable behaviour,self harming, lashing out and not having a clue what is actually going on. Two weeks ago it took two people restraining, followed and accompanied by the police restraining, de-esculating and after an hour, us being brought home (we were leaving school at the time) in a police van for safety.

You cannot thrive on high anxiety. It's nothing to do with strength or weakness and you cannot flick a switch to control it. True high anxiety can be debilitating and dangerous. So please stop with your trolling nonsense.

densol_2

rogerblack wrote: »

4 points - 'needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to express or understand complex verbal information'.
If half of the time, you cannot reliably and when needed do this without prompting from a helper, due to panic attacks, or are actively avoiding this activity because it is too stressful - this could qualify.

4-8 points - 'needs social support to be able to engage with other people' or 'cannot engage with other people' If most of the time, or some of the time it's required most days this can't be managed due to panic attacks.

2 points 'making budgeting decisions' - likewise.

10 points 'Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, ...', if due to the panic attacks they can't do this more than half the time, without help, but could with help.

The bare descriptors are not so promising.
However, these cannot be read in isolation, they must be read with the definitions. A person may qualify as an aid, if they are needed to complete the activity.
You cannot complete an activity if you cannot do it:
As and when reasonably needed, on more than half of the days you need to do it, in a time that does not exceed twice the normal persons time, safely and reliably.

'Cannot' in a descriptor does _NOT_ mean 'cannot ever'.

I'm going to use some of this for a mandatory review as I have till the 14th June. The DWP letter acknowledged my mental health issues as consistent with my medical evidence and the assessors observations but appears not to feel a person is an aid ( although they do not say that ) I've nothing to lose - I'm typing out a letter on Monday. Thanks Roger.

Studebacher_Hoch

OP, you need to make a claim for ESA if you've been signed off sick from work. You can backdate it 3 months if your GP agrees to backdate a medical certificate. You don't need to give any reason for backdating. The fit note will go to ESA, but they'll tell you what benefit centre to send it to (you can post it or get an appointment with the job centre and ask them to email it across).

You can find the form (ESA1) online to print and post a new claim.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419631/esa1-print.pdf

If you can though it's better to ring up and start the claim off on the phone (0800 055 66 88). This is because your claim will be logged from when they receive the application so you'll get the earliest possible start date by phone. Plus there's no risk of delays if it gets lost in the postroom.

Of course if you're not going to try and backdate it as far as possible the time limit doesn't matter so much, but assuming your claim is successful the earlier you start it the sooner you get the increased amounts.

If you're claiming for income-related ESA (which you should, even if you don't think you qualify) you'll need to know what savings you have. You'll also need GP's name and address and phone number and same for any other professionals who work with you that you want to mention.

After you log the claim they'll post you an ESA50 form, this is to describe how your condition affects you. Look up the points and support group criteria before you fill it in so you know what they're looking for. Better yet take it to a local welfare rights service (eg CAB) for help completing it.

Submit as much supporting evidence as you can. If your GP (or psychiatrist) agrees that some of the qualifying criteria apply to you then get him/her to write a letter specifically quoting the descriptor(s) and saying that they apply to you. Doesn't need to be a long letter, though some background helps. Just make sure their letter quotes the regulations. That's pretty much the best evidence you can have.

Also remember that the criteria need only apply on the majority of days, so for example, support group descriptor 13 which can often apply with anxiety conditions:

13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual.

Doesn't actually mean literally 'always' precluded, it means it's precluded for the majority of the time or on the majority of days.

There are also a couple of qualifying regulations (Reg 29 and 35) based on risk to your (or others') health if you're found fit for work/work-related activity. A lot of awards are based on these so check them out and put any risks (eg. heart problems, self-neglect, self-harm, suicidal ideation, hospital admission) down on the form. Any case history of these can go in the other information box. Be sure to state what sort of things can trigger them.

Be aware you may still be asked to go to the job centre sometimes for 'Work Focused Interviews' and possibly asked to go on training courses. It will depend on the outcome of your assessment.

Also, worth knowing, it is still possible to do some part-time work on ESA without it reducing your benefit (even though the GP's signed a fit note). It's called 'permitted work'. So if you think you might be able to manage a small amount then check that option out.

PIP advice is pretty similar, but it's probably best to call the PIP new claims line (0800 917 22 22) and check out the PIP descriptors for that one. There is no backdating with PIP so start the claim off as soon as you can.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

With all the descriptors on a majority of days you need to be able to do them safely, in a reasonable timescale (i.e. shouldn't take you more than twice as long as you'd expect someone without a health condition), repeatedly (as often as is reasonable to expect someone to be able do a task) and to an acceptable standard.

So for example:

a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided.

Means: 'a. On a majority of days can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided safely, repeatedly, in a reasonable timescale and to an acceptable standard'

All descriptors should be looked at like that.

billywilly

Studebacher_Hoch wrote: »

So for example:

a. Can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided.

Means: 'a. On a majority of days can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided safely, repeatedly, in a reasonable timescale and to an acceptable standard'

All descriptors should be looked at like that.

I am consistently hearing about these variations on a theme of what constitutes the various descriptors of PIP.

To clarify for the OP and the rest of us, could you please quote exactly where this definition is within the regulations? I can't find them, and therefore assume that they are an assumption that someone has made along the way.

rogerblack

billywilly wrote: »

I am consistently hearing about these variations on a theme of what constitutes the various descriptors of PIP.

To clarify for the OP and the rest of us, could you please quote exactly where this definition is within the regulations? I can't find them, and therefore assume that they are an assumption that someone has made along the way.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/455/regulation/2/made

“(2A) Where C’s ability to carry out an activity is assessed, C is to be assessed as satisfying a descriptor only if C can do so—

(a)safely;

(b)to an acceptable standard;

(c)repeatedly; and

(d)within a reasonable time period.”; and

(b)after paragraph (3) insert the following paragraph—

“(4) In this regulation—

(a)“safely” means in a manner unlikely to cause harm to C or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity;

(b)“repeatedly” means as often as the activity being assessed is reasonably required to be completed; and

(c)“reasonable time period” means no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity.”

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/377/regulation/7

7.—(1) The descriptor which applies to C in relation to each activity in the tables referred to in regulations 5 and 6 is —

(a)where one descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period, that descriptor;

(b)where two or more descriptors are each satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period, the descriptor which scores the higher or highest number of points; and

(c)where no descriptor is satisfied on over 50% of the days of the required period but two or more descriptors (other than a descriptor which scores 0 points) are satisfied for periods which, when added together, amount to over 50% of the days of the required period–

(i)the descriptor which is satisfied for the greater or greatest proportion of days of the required period; or,

(ii)where both or all descriptors are satisfied for the same proportion, the descriptor which scores the higher or highest number of points.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a descriptor is satisfied on a day in the required period if it is likely that, if C had been assessed on that day, C would have satisfied that descriptor.

(3) In paragraphs (1) and (2), “required period” means —

(a)in the case where entitlement to personal independence payment falls to be determined, the period of 3 months ending with the prescribed date together with–

(i)in relation to a claim after an interval for the purpose of regulation 15, the period of 9 months beginning with the date on which that claim is made;

(ii)in relation to any other claim, the period of 9 months beginning with the day after the prescribed date.

Combining these two, and the descriptor, we get to:

a. On a majority of days can prepare and cook a simple meal unaided safely, repeatedly, in a reasonable timescale and to an acceptable standard'

(In order to get no points)


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/377/schedule/1

aided” means with –
(a) the use of an aid or appliance; or
(b) supervision, prompting or assistance;

“unaided” means without –
(a) the use of an aid or appliance; or
(b) supervision, prompting or assistance.

'Reasonable time period' is likely further amplified by the equalities act, so that '” means no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity' cannot be - if you're 30 - taken to be the maximum period that an unfit 80 year old might take. It has to be what a reasonably similar person without your disabilities might do.