Crisis Loan Fraud

superbigal36

Surely you cant have got a crisis loan if you did not even qualify !!

RuthnJasper

I had a small crisis loan a few years ago, for which I was very grateful. All my correspondence with DWP was by letter, they never telephoned me at any point.

Maybe it was a typing error by someone back in 2012?

Hope you get it sorted OP.

richard9991

Another thing is most crisis loans at that time were sill being done by over the counter giro payments so whoever done it would have had to have gone to job centre with id to collect them.

billywilly

richard9991 wrote: »

Another thing is most crisis loans at that time were sill being done by over the counter giro payments so whoever done it would have had to have gone to job centre with id to collect them.

Which isn't that difficult to get hold of. Although my 'alias' bank accounts have been closed down for quite a number of years now, Back in the early/mid 90's I was able to open bank accounts with variations on a theme of my name and no one ever checked them.

I know that it can't happen now, in fact it 's even hard trying to find a bank that WILL take large cash deposits to open a new account, without having to prove who you are and where you live. I have a live post on this very thing over on the savings board.

On the other hand it still isn't that difficult to 'clone' someone and apply for credit etc.

missapril75

richard9991 wrote: »

Another thing is most crisis loans at that time were sill being done by over the counter giro payments so whoever done it would have had to have gone to job centre with id to collect them.

billywilly wrote: »

Which isn't that difficult to get hold of.

But there's more to a crisis loan than having someone's ID and collecting the payment.

The application involves giving information about income. Usually, but not exclusively, it's benefit.

The application includes a NINO. The income will be checked. If benefit income is reported and the NINO shows no benefit there's an immediate red flag.

If the applicant's income isn't benefit - remember a loan has to be repaid - then the DWP needs proof of what the income is. So the imposter needs to satisfy them as to what the income is.

The address on the application needs to correspond with that of the applicant's NINO account.

And if the debt is three loans, then three times there will have been enough information gathered, three reasonably convincing stories advanced and somehow falsely representing three sets of financial circumstances that would be verified.

And if they really have shown they have the means to repay, what do they say when the DWP says - "but we gave you a loan before and you haven't paid it" And then on the third loan they say "but we gave you a loan twice before and you haven't repaid either."

Perhaps they just adopt a resigned approach and say "well, maybe third time lucky and you'll repay this time." :rotfl:

You have to wonder why someone with the necessary contacts or abilities to falsely produce and represent such stuff so often is mucking about with petty amounts obtainable by crisis loans.


As for CCTV and phone recordings...no idea how long they are retained. But how do you pinpoint the exact time to examine this far down the road?

abrockall

That's not entirely true.
Crisis loans were done over the phone and paid into your bank account in 2012. No ID needed at all.
You just needed a NI number with name, DOB and current address.
No forms to fill in and you did not have to be claiming benefits to get one.

Trust me I know I have comitted benefit fraud several times and never been caught

missapril75

abrockall wrote: »

That's not entirely true.
Crisis loans were done over the phone and paid into your bank account in 2012. No ID needed at all.
You just needed a NI number with name, DOB and current address.
No forms to fill in and you did not have to be claiming benefits to get one.

Trust me I know I have comitted benefit fraud several times and never been caught

Yes, but you don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

You still needed to give enough information that needed proving as to who you were and to "justify" a loan for your story. You may feel you didn't give much but you certainly did.

And then of course it's not much good to you if it goes into somebody else's account is it.

You may not be as clever as you think.

billywilly

missapril75 wrote: »

Yes, but you don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

You still needed to give enough information that needed proving as to who you were and to "justify" a loan for your story. You may feel you didn't give much but you certainly did.

And then of course it's not much good to you if it goes into somebody else's account is it.

You may not be as clever as you think.

Don't you have any old bank accounts that aren't in your name but the name of an alias?
It was common practice in the 80's and 90's to have them - how else do you think that money that you paid in could be kept hidden from the authorities?
A common feature was to have your wage paid in two parts, cash & cheque. The cheque went into your 'normal' account and was recorded by your employer and the cash was paid into an alias account. How did the employer do that you might ask. How do you think?
That was the real world at the time.

missapril75

billywilly wrote: »

Don't you have any old bank accounts that aren't in your name but the name of an alias?
It was common practice in the 80's and 90's to have them - how else do you think that money that you paid in could be kept hidden from the authorities?
A common feature was to have your wage paid in two parts, cash & cheque. The cheque went into your 'normal' account and was recorded by your employer and the cash was paid into an alias account. How did the employer do that you might ask. How do you think?
That was the real world at the time.

I haven't the faintest idea what you mean but you do seem to be missing the point.

If you steal someone's ID and pretend to be them to get a crisis loan what's the point in having it paid into their bank account? Stealing their ID doesn't grant you access to the money.

Now if you happen to have obtained their bank card or manage some other way of getting your hands on the money in addition to stealing their ID and providing information to the DWP that you won't necessarily know simply by stealing their ID, there's still the matter of money going into their bank account - a mystery deposit - and then the money coming out of their bank account - another mystery transaction - which they also know nothing about even though it shows up on their statements and stares them in the face when they go on line.

And again, why is someone capable of all this not doing something with a bigger return?

I'm no expert in these dodgy matters but I'm not sure that authentic looking fake ID documents and the skills of hackers and whatnot can be paid for from crisis loans worth about £5 a day.

billywilly

missapril75 wrote: »

I haven't the faintest idea what you mean but you do seem to be missing the point.

If you steal someone's ID and pretend to be them to get a crisis loan what's the point in having it paid into their bank account? Stealing their ID doesn't grant you access to the money.

Now if you happen to have obtained their bank card or manage some other way of getting your hands on the money in addition to stealing their ID and providing information to the DWP that you won't necessarily know simply by stealing their ID, there's still the matter of money going into their bank account - a mystery deposit - and then the money coming out of their bank account - another mystery transaction - which they also know nothing about even though it shows up on their statements and stares them in the face when they go on line.

And again, why is someone capable of all this not doing something with a bigger return?

I'm no expert in these dodgy matters but I'm not sure that authentic looking fake ID documents and the skills of hackers and whatnot can be paid for from crisis loans worth about £5 a day.

People have been mugged and killed for £5 in this country.
Try arguing the toss with someone pointing what maybe a fake gun in your face.
I'm sure you would hand over your last penny!