Parking eye sent two letters with different dates and after 14 days of event

ColliesCarer

travellingtootsies wrote: »

.......Interestingly on the letter marked 07/05/2015 there is no mention of the protection of freedoms act, however on the letter marked 16/05/2015 they now state that

"You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) ..................."

Is it important I appeal the letter that does not have any mention of the POFA?? Also Redx the fact that both letters arrived after 20/05/2015 so 22 days after the parking event, does that not matter? If that point is useless making in my appeal then I'll leave it, but I still think it's all a bit fishy.

Just to be completely clear I underdtand the newbie letter I will be sending (without rant) what does this mean?... "Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations." is it because there was no mention of the POFA in one of the letters? or other additional reasons?

Thank you!!!

Your're right to think it's all a bit fishy - the whole Parking Skimdustry smells like Billingsgate

But don't get too hung up on the details of all this for the moment - just get your 1st appeal submitted on-line as Redx has said.

What follows below will be important at the POPLA stage - but for now no need to add anything further than what Redx suggested - so keep your powder dry.

The challenge "Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations" is always included in a first appeal from the Registered Keeper because very few Notice to Keepers ever are fully compliant but they must be otherwise the Parking company has no right to pursue the keeper and could only pursue the driver if they knew who that was. The PPC are unlikely to cancel even so - however at POPLA this is an important challenge point.

On the issue of the 2 letters received - lets call the one dated 7/5/15 Letter A and the one dated 16/5/15 Letter B.

Legally the letters will be deemed to have arrived by the second working day after posting - and whilst the RK's statement that they both only arrived after 20/5/15 is evidence - it's unlikely the RK has any back up proof as such - that won't matter IMO because :-

They must send out a NtK that fully complies with POFA 2012 Schedule 4 not just in terms of when it arrives but all conditions - see paragraph 9 of POFA

Letter A - is the first letter sent and should therefore be treated as the NtK. In the absence of proof to the contrary it will be deemed to have arrived by Mon 11th May (2 working days from 7/5/145) but it seems to fail to comply with other conditions of para 9 given there's no mention of POFA etc - so check it against the full conditions.

If PE try to argue (for POPLA) that Letter B was the NtK then that also fails to comply with POFA because it was produced on 16/5/15 and wouldn't be deemed to have arrived until 19th May at the earliest so it is therefore out of time and their own date on it proves it.

A compliant NtK is a fundamental statutory requirement and either way you have a strong argument they have failed to provide one in either Letter A or Letter B and therefore they have failed to establish a right to pursue the keeper.

This would of course not be the only challenge to include in any future POPLA appeal - all the other usual grounds need to be included too.

travellingtootsies

I've got muddled... Their info about POFA is on the letter A marked 07/05/2015 but not on letter B (follow up letter). So it is technically on their first letter according to their records...however letter A arrived after the letter B and both arrived 22 days + after the event???how I would prove this though I have no idea.

Appeal is going in tonight, went to do it this afternoon but can't attach the file from my iPad so it's got to wait till I get in from work and can get access the laptop.

Thank you again for all the advice.

ColliesCarer

Ah - ok thanks for the update - that would tend to indicate that Letter A was their NtK then and Letter B their "kind" reminder - but check it against POFA anyway to see if it fails to comply in other ways.

It's a tricky one to prove as more often than not even the envelopes they come in aren't usually date stamped but at POPLA the RK would state in their appeal that the NtK wasn't received in time and put PE to strict proof that it was - PE would then have to rebut this in their response.

And there are other challenges

Redx

just use your appeal letter from earlier to the pcn number, dont worry too much about it at this stage

as I said earlier, its about CANCEL, or POPLA CODE

and do not make the rookie mistake of appealing in your own name, the letters went to your partner, so the appeal comes from "your partner"

ps:- I also think I have been ignored about the postal issues (half of what I posted so far seems to have been ignored), so will repeat

the first NTK may have been sent to whistl , who folded at the time (a few weeks ago, prankster blogged about it) - so a delay would ensue

if we assume this is correct, they would know that POFA 2012 cannot apply so issued a second notice that does not fall under POFA 2012 due to the delays in resending it , probably via the Royal Mail

I submit that this is the most likely scenario as to why 2 letters were issued, one with, the second without

so in my humble opinion, there is nothing "fishy" about it, they were caught out by whistl stopping trading

Northlakes

I seem to remember seeing quite a bit about this site. Is it the one they tried to get the parking period reduced?
OP do some research on the planning history if you can. Also the local council car park penalties as a the 'benchmark' test for when or if it comes to the POPLA stage.

Northlakes

Our friends from Savills,
http://savills.completelyretail.co.uk/index.php?p=viewScheme&id=2260

Riverside Mk2 ?

http://www.burytimes.co.uk/yoursay/8974032.Fined_for_nipping_from_retail_park_to_the_bank/

Bury Market where the best black puddings come from!

travellingtootsies

thank you for all your comments Redx and everyone else too, I appreciate your help with regards to what yo write and the situation with both letters too. I've logged the appeal this evening, signed off with the RK's details not mine. I did try to take a screen shot of the page that came up after submitting my appeal but it didn't work and closed the page! I hope this doesn't cause issues with regards to me proving my submission?