Parking eye sent two letters with different dates and after 14 days of event

travellingtootsies

Hi all,

I've spent a lot of time now reading the threads about parking eye and the newbie sticky too. My mind is a bit boggled and I apologise if this thread makes those who understands the ins and outs of what to do, want to hit their head against a brick wall. I want to know if Parking Eye have shot themselves in the foot with the dates printed on our letters and the fact they've sent two differing ones??

My partner (registered keeper) has received two letters a few days a part last week in the post from parking eye, both state the car overstaying the free 2 hour period on Moorgate retail park in Bury, Lancahsire by 58:45mins on 29th April. However the dates differ on the letters, and both letters were delivered to the house after the 14 days of the event happening. I know in the protection of freedoms act 2012 it says...

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

On the first it says the date issued is 07/05/2015 but then has a second date saying 16/05/2015 (I don't know what this second date is for) it then states "parking charge amount due £100.00 payment to be made by: 05/06/2015 This parking charge is discounted to £60.00 if paid by: 21/05/2015 After this date, the full parking charge amount will be owed."

A second letter arrives saying date issued 07/05/2015 and the second date is 07/05/2015 it states "parking charge amount due £100.00 payment to be made within 28 days of date issued: 04/06/2015 This parking charge is discounted to £60.00 if paid within 14 days of the date issued: 21/05/2015 After this date, the full parking charge amount will be owed."

Now which letter do I acknowkedge if either? £100 is an awful lot of money!!!! Annoyingly both of us have been away as my partner works away from home and on his first week off in forever we went away, coming home to these beauties resulting in the higher charge! Help on fathoming this would be greatly appreciated. Is it worth appealing it on the grounds of the dates and two differing letters or just using the template in the newbie thread and putting it into my owns words, OR pay as it seems parking eye are getting harder and harder to bring to justice.

Thank you and sorry if I've really rambled...

Redx

how many pcn numbers are there ? one or two ?

if there is one pcn number, just challenge it using the template letter in the NEWBIES thread

if there are 2 different pcn numbers, challenge each one separately

I suspect you have two letters due to them using whistl and then maybe using the post office, so check the actual envelopes for carriage

for pofa to apply (RK liability), the letter has to arrive by day 15 (15th day from the event)

ColliesCarer

Parking Eye tend to send out reminders about the discount period.

If the PCN number and details of event are the same, then I suspect -

The second letter to arrive is actually the initial parking charge notice - date issued relates to the date of creation of the parking charge - the second date is the date the letter was created.

The first letter to arrive may be their thoughtful reminder -
date of issue of PCN 7/5/15 - date letter created 16/5/15.

It's amazing how much post from PPC's arrives very late or not at all - and strangely after the discount period.

My advice would be to get the 1st appeal template letter in NEWBIES sent off asap - clock is ticking to be within time - they normally re-offer the discount when they reject the appeal.

You will then have more time to gen up further before having to decide about POPLA and see how things pan out re: The Beavis case which has clouded the waters somewhat

But only as far as the not a GPEOL point - there are lots of other grounds and POPLA are still upholding appeals against PE

EDIT: Apols Redx screen hadn't refreshed so didn't see you'd already covered the points above

Redx

appeal on their site, to each and every pcn number (providing they are different numbers) , by attaching the template appeal "as is" and not "in your own words" , if removing anything at all then just remove the "rant" part

then put see attached appeal and attach it as a word doc or pdf, adding the pcn number , name , address and VRN

no need to waste a stamp, plus you get email acknowledgements too

why make it harder than it is ?

if its the same pcn and yet 2 letters, treat it as one pcn and appeal one pcn, online, on their site, with appeal template letter, takes 5 minutes or less to appeal and atatch the appeal template

travellingtootsies

Thank you so much for your replies, I really really appreciate it.

I've checked this morning and both ref numbers are the same so i will appeal just one letter. I'll email as well to make sure it gets to them asap. Interestingly on the letter marked 07/05/2015 there is no mention of the protection of freedoms act, however on the letter marked 16/05/2015 they now state that

"You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the drivers name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them.

You are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued), the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This warning is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that act."

Is it important I appeal the letter that does not have any mention of the POFA?? Also Redx the fact that both letters arrived after 20/05/2015 so 22 days after the parking event, does that not matter? If that point is useless making in my appeal then I'll leave it, but I still think it's all a bit fishy.

Just to be completely clear I underdtand the newbie letter I will be sending (without rant) what does this mean?... "Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations." is it because there was no mention of the POFA in one of the letters? or other additional reasons?

Thank you!!!

Redx

there is a rant section (a diatribe complaint) partway down the appeal , after part e), this paragraph can be omitted if you want

do not email them

use their online appeal and attach the appeal as a word doc or pdf , putting in the appeal box , see attached appeal

dont make this up as you go along, stick to the tried and tested methods

if the NTK failed to reach you by day 15 , add an extra point (labelled f) ) to say that POFA 2012 does not apply to the registered keeper due to the time delay between the date of the event and the date the letter arrived , so tell them to cancel and chase the driver (who will not be named)

keep all correspondence, including the dated letters and envelopes, for a few years at least (for now)

travellingtootsies

Brilliant thank you so much for you help and very speedy reply Redx. I'm going to do it all now and add section about it not arriving in time...I really hope those envelopes are in the recycling and not in the bin!

travellingtootsies

I've put this in a pdf and will attach to the online appeal as suggested then...any faults or statements out of date then a heads up is appreciated.

Date 26/05/2015

Dear Sirs

Red no...

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:


A). POFA 2012 does not apply to the registered keeper due to the time delay between the date of the event and the date the letter arrived , therefore cancel this charge and contact the driver
. The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is extravagant and unconscionable when compared to local parking charges issued by the Council so cannot be justified.
C). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is to deter.
D). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
E). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
F). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. Following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, express consent must be obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent. You have failed to meet these requirements and you did not serve the driver with the terms by durable medium.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,

Name of keeper
Address of keeper.

Redx

you forgot to add "who shall not be named" in point a) at the end (despite me telling you to put this in)

you want them to either cancel or issue a popla code, not enter into further back and forth correspondence , so dont give them the opportunity to put it "on hold" whilst they try to prise the drivers details from your partner

otherwise its fine, providing you also add the VRN , pcn number and your partners name and address as "keeper"

travellingtootsies

Sorry I had added that when I read back through and didn't copy and paste the correct one to the forum, apologies I wasn't ignoring your point. And yeah don't worry reference number and name is address is there i just didn't want to post it all on here. Thank you.

Redx

no problem, but make sure this is done in your partners name , even if you are doing the work

your partner is RK, so its your partner that is appealing, not you

good luck