Aldi NPE

Sparra

Hello, I think I have read all the newbie info and threads.

I would be greatful for any advise please....

My car was parked at the local Aldi supermarket on a Sunday morning. This Aldi car park is shared with The Heartsease Pub. It was at 10:22 in the morning, the Aldi part of the car park was full with car circling waiting for spaces so the car was parked in a 'blue' bay reserved for the pub. With the pub closed the driver thought it would be ok. I then got the letter from NPE with the PCN. I wrote my appeal letter expecting a rejection which I have now got.

My points were:


There was insufficient signage
The car park in question has no clear signage to explain what the relevant parking restrictions are. The Aldi part of the car park was full with other car drivers circling for spaces as soon as they became vacant. The Heartsease pub was closed and was not opening until 11:30am. The attached sign was discussed with a member of Aldi staff on entering the Aldi supermarket, her reply was it should be fine parked where the car was parked as the pub was closed, The sign seen in the car park is misleading as the sign states you may be charged. This means no contract can be formed with the landowner and all tickets are issued illegally. Please see attached evidence, I include a photo of the sign, I have gathered as proof.


The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

According to the Unfair Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case, the £60 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £0. The Pub was closed and their part of the car park virtually empty so they can’t have lost any business.


Here is a copy of their reply letter:

Thank you for your letter of appeal against the above parking charge notice issued to you on 12th April 2015 at 10.22am for reason ‘Non Patron’ at ‘Heartsease Pub, Plumstead Road, Norwich’.

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:
1- The above location is private property and there are advertised terms and conditions which the driver is expected to abide by in order to obtain permission to park.
2- The signage at this location clearly states that parking for Aldi is only permitted within the white lined bays.

3- The Aldi signage also clearly states that their customers are only permitted to park in the white lined bays:

4- Please note that the bays are clearly marked differently than the Aldi bays. Blue lined bays with a solid line at entrance to bay for Heartsease Pub bays. White lined bays with no solid entrance to bay for Aldi customers.

5- As every effort has been made by ourselves and Aldi to advise drivers where they can and cannot park we believe the parking charge was issued correctly.

6- The Heartsease Pub bays are not only painted blue, they also have a solid line at the entrance to the bays:

7- Following the judgement of the Court of Appeal in ParkingEye v Beavis on 23rd April 2015, we can confirm that the parking charge is considered to be a deterrent to parking in a restricted area and the charge is not extravagant or unconscionable.

8- The parking charge made is not a penalty and the issue of genuine pre-estimate of loss is not relevant.

You now have a number of options:
1- Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the prevailing price of £60.00 within 14 days. Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.00.
2- Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service, within 28 days from date of this letter. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case you will lose the right to the discounted rate of £60.00, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour, you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. If you opt to pay the reduced amount of £60.00 you will not be able to apply to POPLA. Appeals to POPLA can be made by post to: POPLA, PO Box 70748, London, EC1P 1SN, or by email to:
quoting the verification number above. POPLA’s Enquiries telephone number is: 0845 207 7700.
Registered office. The Studio, St. Nicholas Close, Elstree, Hertfordshire WD6 3EW Tel 0330 0080371
office address: PO Box 244, Wymondham, Norfolk, NR18 8BZemail - office@parkingprotection .co.uk
company registration no. 08031075

3- If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with court action against you.

Regards
NPE Appeals Dept


They included lots of photos of the bays and of their signage which I can't seem to be able to include in this post for you to see.

Do you think I could win my appeal on ground of the pub being closed?

I checked my POPLA verification number with Parking Cowboys and it said:

Code summary
Issuing operator: 45
Date code generated: Wed Apr 23 2014
Code sequence number: 500
Deadline information
You have missed the deadline to appeal!
Your deadline was on the Wed May 21 2014
Your deadline passed 366 day(s) ago
Grounds for complaint
This code was generated 386 day(s) before the date of your appeal rejection letter. This means that you have not been given the full 28 days to appeal that you are entitled to under the British Parking Association's Code of Practice. Please consider making a complaint.

Thank you for all your help and advise on this website so far.

Northlakes

Looks like NPE have copied and pasted a previous letter and given you an old POPLA code.
Appealing on the basis that the pub was shut is non-starter only legal arguments as per the NEWBIES sticky thread.
Complain to Steve Clarke at BPA and get them to issue you a new code and read up regarding successful NPE POPLA appeals.
Post up some dates to see if timescales have been obeyed and I hope you didn't admit who was driving.

Redx

what they have done is used last years formula to generate this popla code , not this years formula, hence why its so out of date

this tends to happen at the start of the year with a few of these companies

as mentioned above, report them to s clark and let the BPA deal with it

Grimble

Two lots of signs from two PPC's, who are you making a contract with? Lines not blue but blue and white (I have photos). You will get lots of letters, DRP, Zenith, SCS all bog paper, file and keep. You will also find his NTK does not conform with POPLA as it asks you to name the driver to be able to appeal. He was kicked out of there last year, has he come back?

enfield_freddy

how soon did you receive your NTk from NPE after the offence?




his right to use ANPR (or mobile phone cameras) has been withdrawn by the BPA
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/approved-operators
so if your info was gleened from the dvla in <14 days , he has broken the KODOE agreement , by not abiding by his ATAs code of practice.

The_Deep

I can see you losing this in court on commercial justification grounds if all else, contract, signs, the PPC's financial arrangement with the pub, etc., are OK, and the pub was trading later in the day. I would be inclined to offer them £30 as you had absolutely no right to park there.

nigelbb

The_Deep wrote: »

I think that they could win this on commercial justification if all else, contract, signs etc., are OK, and the pub was trading is OK. I would be inclined to offer them £30 as you had absolutely no right to park there.

The pub was closed. It was 10:20. It didn't open for another hour. A member of staff at Aldi said it was OK to park as the pub was shut. The OP owes NPE nothing.

The_Deep

I know, but I assume that they would be opening soon. In any case, the land belongs to the pub and the OP was going to Lidl

enfield_freddy

The_Deep wrote: »

I know, but I assume that they would be opening soon. In any case, the land belongs to the pub and the OP was going to Lidl

that's why they were !!!!ed off , it was an aldi car park

Grimble

Beavis does not apply in this case as he does not pay the land owner anything.

Herzlos

The_Deep wrote: »

I can see you losing this in court on commercial justification grounds if all else, contract, signs, the PPC's financial arrangement with the pub, etc., are OK, and the pub was trading later in the day. I would be inclined to offer them £30 as you had absolutely no right to park there.

I can see them winning on all of the above. What's the commercial justification for charging someone for parking in a space for use of a closed facility? That the PPC will lose it's contract for failing to manage the parking?

Signage was obviously insufficient "No parking here at any time unless pub customer". Contract is also going to be insufficient, and there's no loss or attempts to mitigate loss (they could easily run a chain across the spaces when the pub is shut).

Maybe they shouldn't have parked there, but no damage was done to justify a charge.