Even the Torygraph Likes Immigration

padington

CLAPTON wrote: »

There is no evidence that immigration is paying for anything extra that we would have already even in simple money terms.
In terms of the quality of our life (boring things like access to NHS, schools, roads, trains, houses etc) higher population numbers are doing great harm.

The price of houses in London and the SE is largely determined by the increase in population in thoses areas.
Maybe you personally benefit but it is ridiculous to suggest this is an benefit to the exisiting people of the UK.

As Carney has observed, the endless supply of cheap labour reduces the incentives for improving productivity which would be to our long term benefit.

A healthy working population offering many opportunities for firms to chose the best person for the job from a large pool creates a productive competitive environment and gives us half a chance to compete against the rest of the world.

Otherwise doubling the minimum wage would be all we needed to increase productivity. Shall we try it ?

TELLIT01

CLAPTON wrote: »

what national needs are those?

Generally a skills shortage in an area where people currently resident in the UK couldn't be provided with the training to do the work in the required timescale.

CLAPTON

padington wrote: »

A healthy working population offering many opportunities for firms to chose the best person for the job from a large pool creates a productive competitive environment and gives us half a chance to compete against the rest of the world.

Otherwise doubling the minimum wage would be all we needed to increase productivity. Shall we try it ?

we already have a healthy working population.
we are a union of 65 million people

we compete quite well with the rest of the world, which is why we are rich and an attraction to the 6,000,000,000 (or more) less well off in the world

what do you see as out ideal population size?

do you ever see a limit or do we need to continual import healthy young people whose education we haven't paid for?

do you see any draw backs to the people of the UK with the high London /SE house prices?
do you see any drawbacks to the people of the UK from our poor housing standards?

doubling the minimum wage is an interesting idea: in the short term it would lead to higher unemployment but would provide an incentive to invest to replace people.

we could then have a more productive economy with higher unemployment: not an option I would favour.

padington

CLAPTON wrote: »

we already have a healthy working population.
we are a union of 65 million people

we compete quite well with the rest of the world, which is why we are rich and an attraction to the 6,000,000,000 (or more) less well off in the world

what do you see as out ideal population size?

do you ever see a limit or do we need to continual import healthy young people whose education we haven't paid for?

do you see any draw backs to the people of the UK with the high London /SE house prices?
do you see any drawbacks to the people of the UK from our poor housing standards?

doubling the minimum wage is an interesting idea: in the short term it would lead to higher unemployment but would provide an incentive to invest to replace people.

we could then have a more productive economy with higher unemployment: not an option I would favour.

I think we should work to a global sustainable framework and we should end incentives to have children like child benefit. However in the UK at the moment given the pickle we are in, immigration is a blessing and it's the last thing I would want to be limiting. Give up bleating about the one thing helping us in this mess.

CLAPTON

padington wrote: »

I think we should work to a global sustainable framework and we should end incentives to have children like child benefit. However in the UK at the moment given the pickle we are in, immigration is a blessing and it's the last thing I would want to be limiting. Give up bleating about the one thing helping us in this mess.

what pickle are we in?

how exactly do high houses prices and poor housing 'help' us?
how does keeping wages and productivity down help us?
how does decreasing access to NHS services help us?
how do higher imports of essentials like food, oil, gas etc help us ?

if that's your view of 'helping us' I'ld hate to think what you would consider 'harm' is?

padington

How does asking a million questions without ever addressing the real one ever get you anywhere ?

The pickle is our high national debt caused by the bankers. We now need more hands on deck because they royally shafted us. More an anti immigrant sentiment is created, less we can employ those extra hands. Stop doing it.

Our government does need to be more productive, that means encouraging more open competition wherever a closed shop is operating which includes changing the way our NHS operates and incentivising work as opposed to watching Jeremy Kyle, which in part includes a decent minimum wage as well as ( I would suggest ) asking everyone on the dole to take up community service.

However, immigration is a part of the solution, people as a whole make more money than they take, especially if you are clever at creating a good environment for that to happen and that is what we should be doing.

Encouraging an environment where we can't employ these extra hands on deck is only going to hamper our recovery and is a compete distraction.

Carl31

This skills issue the EU solves I hear about, what happened before the EU was introduced? I was too young to really know

I just cant see how not having access to EU migrants would really change much, its not a total ban, just a bit harder, like people who leave the UK for countries outside the EU, like the US or Australia, yes its hard, but the decent candidates will get through

chewmylegoff

Carl31 wrote: »

This skills issue the EU solves I hear about, what happened before the EU was introduced? I was too young to really know

I just cant see how not having access to EU migrants would really change much, its not a total ban, just a bit harder, like people who leave the UK for countries outside the EU, like the US or Australia, yes its hard, but the decent candidates will get through

Before the EU, pret a manger was called Wimpy and was staffed by surly British yoofs who couldn't spell their own name instead of Poles with a master's degree in civil engineering.

Everything else was exactly the same as it is now.

chiefie

Immigration, whatever you think of it solves the issue of an ageing population. It means that there are more working people, which are needed to pay NI contributions to meet the state pensions of retirees. Without it, NI contributions and taxes would have to go up higher.

Sapphire

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Before the EU, pret a manger was called Wimpy and was staffed by surly British yoofs who couldn't spell their own name instead of Poles with a master's degree in civil engineering.

Everything else was exactly the same as it is now.

To an extent, I agree with this – though I don't agree that the Poles coming over from Poland today all have degrees of any kind. Many of them come from rural areas and small towns – they are of a different ilk from the Poles who were political exiles in the UK after the Second World War. However, the majority of current immigrants from Poland are hardworking and pleasant people, with no axe to grind and with a strong work ethic – something that is lacking in many 'British yoofs' and 'traditional British workers', who were/still are often arrogant, rude and expensive, and down tools at the slightest opportunity. So when it comes to Poles, I welcome their input to this country, which is advantageous. I also hope that eventually a work ethic will be instilled in the afore-mentioned 'traditional British worker' types, and that they will become productive.

What does concern me a lot is the influx of people of different cultures, with completely different values from those of Europeans, who do not like us and wish us harm, and who mostly appear to come here because of the 'benefits'. Many such people come here via the European mainland, and are able to do so due to EU regulations. Hiding our heads in the sand as regards this issue is storing up huge problems for the future, I feel.:cool: