Car parking fine

Redx

Sloanranger wrote: »

Hi still trying to sort out a pcn.

1) I received a notice as keeper of the car

2) the notice states that a ticket was placed on the windscreen ( which the driver is adamant was not there when they returned to the car) how to prove this?

3) Does the make of the car have to be included in the pcn?.

4) Also parking is free in that particular car park.

5) Any advice please

1) yes you will as that is the law since POFA 2012 came in 3 years ago

2) they often say that, then remove the notice afterwards, its common practice known as ghost ticketing, this racket is unregulated so its their word against the drivers , prove it to who ? this isnt court

3) NO, its unregulated as I said so there doesnt have to be much info at all, seeing as its an invoice becasue in their eyes the driver broke one or more rules that pertain to the parking on the private land they oversee , hence the pcn

4) it may be free, for a time, but any rule breaking means an invoice is generated, that is what you have, an invoice for a perceived breakage of the rules of parking , free or paid for , doesnt matter

5) yes , read and follow the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of the forum

its private land, they decided a rule was broken and issued an invoice on site (supposedly), now they are chasing YOU as RK (as they can under the law, if they abide by the rules of POFA 2012)

its now your task to read and learn, follow the newbies sticky thread, and appeal

you are appealing an invoice , ie:- the invoice is in dispute, so you appeal it on legal grounds, legal arguments, which you have the right to do

if it ever gets to a small claims court, that is when "proof" may be needed !

this isnt court

for a better understanding of what is going on

watch last thursdays watchdog, and last fridays dont get done - get dom, on iplayer catchup

Sloanranger

Hi need some more help. I appealed a pcn from UKcps. The gist is I'm keeper of a car which UKcps allege they ticketed for parking in a disabled bay without a blue badge. The driver is adamant there was no such ticket. I received pcn 33 days later inviting me to pay £100. I challenged the notice within the 28 days allowed (3/6/15) only to receive a letter dated 1/7/15 that my appeal was too late and the charge stands. Do they make the rules up as they go along? Any advice or a template letter would be welcome.(parking in this place is free all day)

Northlakes

Ukcps is an IPC member which unfortunately you won't get a fair hearing on any appeal you make.
Look at the NEWBIES thread but you are at the stage where you might have to go into ignore mode unless you get court papers.

Sloanranger

Just wondering how they can ignore their own codes of practice. Ant point in writing back and pointing this out to them

Redx

nope, its an invoice and only a court of law can decide on the issues you raise, if it actually goes that far (nobody said it was a fair system in place, its an unregulated industry)

the IPC couldnt give a monkeys , neither do UKCPS

ps:- I thought the appeal time for the IPC Cop was 21 days, not 28 days ?

IPC CoP 6b

ColliesCarer

Redx wrote: »

ps:- I thought the appeal time for the IPC Cop was 21 days, not 28 days ?

Yes the IPC CoP specifies the PPC must give a minimum of 21 days. I expect most will therefore only give the minimum.

@Sloanranger - even if you could persuade UKCPS to accept your appeal - they will more than likely reject it and all that will achieve is for you then to be able to submit a 2nd stage appeal to the IAS

But this supposedly independent appeal service is anything but and current advice in the NEWBIES sticky thread is it's not worth the bother

However if you feel you want to try - judging by the dates you gave in your other two threads for this parking charge - an appeal submitted on 3/6/15 may actually have just been within 21 days (you mentioned that you received the NtK on 15/5/15 so check the actual date the NtK was issued).

Also it's better for you and those trying to help you if all the history of the parking charge is in the one thread so would suggest you send a PM to one of the board guides and ask them to merge the three threads you have created about this charge into one.

Sloanranger

Thanks ColliesCarer you're probably going to think I'm awfully stupid but how do I do that? I'm a real technophobe I'm afraid. Another quick question how should a NTK be worded? Should they mention Pofa 2012 section 48

Redx

go to the sticky threads and one is by crabman

click on his name and send him a pm (private message) - asking him to merge your 3 threads on the same topic, you only need one thread for each topic and it keeps the timeline and advice all in the one neat "folder" (ie:- in one thread) instead of all spread out with no references to any previous advice already given

so click his name, send pm , ask for a 3 thread merge

go to the IPC website and download their code of practice
open it in the free program adobe reader

read what their rules are, including 6 b where it mentions 21 days etc (not 28)

google POFA 2012 and read the wording of that law to see what compliancy entails

nb:- there is no set pattern for an NTK, but if they wish to invoke POFA2012 then they have to word it accordingly, but no 2 are alike so dont assume there is one template NTK letter, there isnt, each PPC chooses there own wordings

they actually set out to confuse by using smoke and mirror tactics, whereas recipients like you think that they all have to follow a set procedure and protocols like a council PCN - they dont

remember, this is an invoice , so if a plumber sends you an invoice, and a day later you get a windows and doors invoice, they wont be the same invoice , altered to suit , it is what it is

remember, anybody can chase an invoice in england and wales for up to 6 years under the small claims procedures (started in 1973) so UKCPS or the landowner have 6 years to pursue you, this is now called an MCOL (google it)

I think you "assumed" 28 days was correct, I doubt you read the IPC CoP , sorry to say

good luck

Coupon-mad

Complain to the landowner and ignore UKCPS - unless they send a pre-court letter then come back here.

I should warn you that UKCPS do fairly often try a small claim re disabled bays, so it might go that way but is defendable. All such cases should be robustly rebutted at LBCCC (Letter before County Court Claim) stage, mentioning 'Barry Beavis v ParkingEye' and stating you know that case is at the Supreme Court with a decision due in October/November and, as such, it would be unreasonable and vexatious for them to proceed with court papers until that case it settled.

But not yet, do not respond until you get a pre-court letter. Let it lie for now.

Sloanranger

Thanks for the advice guys will let you know how it goes