Speeding Summons?

Johnmcl7

Dr._Shoe wrote: »

BUT.

Assuming I do get a summons, they won't be doing me for speeding, but for failing to supply driver details (S172).

To this I would have to plead guilty but offer the fact that the car in the picture is a clone using my pictures to support my mitigation. This should lead to the case being dismissed because this would mean that I there is no way that I would have been able to comply with the S172 request so therefore no offence would have been committed.

In actual fact I have already pleaded guilty in effect by saying that I don't know who was driving the car.

You really need to take legal advice before deciding on your strategy because if you're not careful it looks like you could end up with a failure to furnish conviction which means hefty insurance premiums for the next five years or worse - I'd strongly recommend http://forums.pepipoo.com

Pleading guilty would most likely get you convicted of failure to furnish, it won't simply get it dismissed - you should be pleading not guilty.

Does anyone know of the timescale of a potential summons? I know they have to lay the information in court within six months but do they actually take that long? If so I won't be in the clear until some time after Sept 7th...

It's not unusual to take up to seven or eight months before you receive the actual summons for this type of offence.

Mercdriver

stephenoldham wrote: »

The disclosure position is pretty clear. Here's the scenario.

1. Dr Shoe is charged with failing to provide driver details (s.172(3)).
2. She pleads not guilty.
3. Her defence is "I couldn't provide the details because I don't know who was driving. My car was not on the road at the time of the offence. Maybe my car has been cloned. s.172(4)"
4. The CPS have an obligation to disclose material that undermines the prosecution or assists the defence.
5. A photo of the speeding vehicle showing discrepancies with Dr Shoe's car would both undermine the prosecution and assist the defence.
6. That photo would be discloseable to Dr Shoe.
7. If the CPS refuse to disclose the photo then Dr Shoe has to serve a defence statement and make an application under s.8 Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 for disclosure.
8. If the court order disclosure and the CPS still do not disclose then there can't be a fair trial and Dr Shoe could make an abuse of process argument.

Simple really!

My point is that disclosure only comes After pleading, not before. You don't get to see what the prosecution have on you and then decide what to do. That's not how the criminal justice system works.

Minrich

Mercdriver wrote: »

My point is that disclosure only comes After pleading, not before. You don't get to see what the prosecution have on you and then decide what to do. That's not how the criminal justice system works.

What about before interview for a criminal offence then ?

stephenoldham

Dr._Shoe wrote: »

BUT.

Assuming I do get a summons, they won't be doing me for speeding, but for failing to supply driver details (S172).

To this I would have to plead guilty but offer the fact that the car in the picture is a clone using my pictures to support my mitigation. This should lead to the case being dismissed because this would mean that I there is no way that I would have been able to comply with the S172 request so therefore no offence would have been committed.

Dr Shoe

You need to be a bit careful. I am worried that you don't quite understand the process.

If you plead guilty then you have been convicted. You can put forward mitigation which might lower the sentence but mitigation cannot lead to a case being dismissed.

If you are saying that your car was cloned that is a defence and you should plead not guilty. You cannot be guilty of failing to provide details when you don't know those details.

BTW What was the date of the alleged speeding offence?

Minrich

stephenoldham wrote: »

Dr Shoe

You need to be a bit careful. I am worried that you don't quite understand the process.

If you plead guilty then you have been convicted. You can put forward mitigation which might lower the sentence but mitigation cannot lead to a case being dismissed.

If you are saying that your car was cloned that is a defence and you should plead not guilty. You cannot be guilty of failing to provide details when you don't know those details.

BTW What was the date of the alleged speeding offence?

+1 from me . You cannot plead guilty , you are telling us it is not your car so how could you know who was driving it .

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

You can be guilty if you simply do not reply.

You should not be guilty if you reply definitively that the car was not in that place at that time and can show in court that this is the case with reasonable evidence. Such evidence could be reliable witness statements, credit card receipts, phone records and so on.

to stop the police proceeding where you believe your car has been cloned, you can accompany your reply with photographs of your car, including any unique features, preferably permanent, sticking furry dice on to the rear view mirror before taking the photographs would not be convincing!

ChumLee

Minrich wrote: »

What about before interview for a criminal offence then ?

They only have to disclose the reason why the suspect is being interviewed and nothing that would undermine the case.

Mercdriver

Minrich wrote: »

What about before interview for a criminal offence then ?

They won't tell you what they have at any point before the defendent has made their plea. Otherwise all sorts of gangsters would be able to get themselves out of convictions from information disclosed too early.

What many people forget is that motoring offences are criminal offences, just that the majority are non recordable. They are subject to the same disclosure rules as a robbery case.

ChumLee

Mercdriver wrote: »

They won't tell you what they have at any point before the defendent has made their plea. Otherwise all sorts of gangsters would be able to get themselves out of convictions from information disclosed too early.

What many people forget is that motoring offences are criminal offences, just that the majority are non recordable. They are subject to the same disclosure rules as a robbery case.

Correct and the same rules for pre interview disclosure. Which I gues you don't know much about?

MacMickster

!!!!!!!

STOP messing about on an internet forum and get proper legal advice NOW.