Boiler flue in void

MisterBaxter

johnpr98 wrote: »

That's how it used to be until circa 2012 apparently, the legislation or guidance has now changed, hence my current problem.

I'm at a loss how a chimney is a void (Designed to expel smoke fumes from the dwelling) in the same way as a boxed in flue, however there seems to be no differentiation.

The problem I suspect is that a flue/chimney won't do a very good job of getting rid of Carbon Monoxide which due to it's mass (very similar to air) tends to just sit in the surrounding air and isn't light enough to rise readily out of the flue/chimney. Most of the safety issues around boilers/flues is related to CO.

There is the risk that gases could leak from enclosure and expose the occupants to CO.

johnpr98

A brief summary of my dealings with Scottish Power Home Care to date:
I started my Home Service contract with them on the very end of December 2012
My boiler was serviced Summer 2013, again in September 2014 and nothing since until last Friday when I had a motorised valve issue which corrected itself before the engineer arrived, he thought it was a air problem and let some air out of the system by turning a bleed screw.

The engineer then said he couldn't inspect the 'Flue in a void' and put a 'At Risk' notice on my boiler, he informed me that if I continued to use the boiler it would be at my own risk, which I signed as he requested. I told him I needed to use the system until I had a second opinion, he then refused to service the boiler as my contract was probably void.

This is an extract of the guidance from
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/advice/flues_in_voids/frequently_asked_questions.aspx

If gas engineers cannot examine the flue along its length they will advise you that the installation is ‘At Risk’ and will seek your permission to turn it off.

It is important that this should not deter you from having your boilers serviced or maintained as this will at least confirm that the boiler itself is currently safe even if the flue cannot be confirmed as safe.

As my contract was auto renewing on the last days of December I cancelled my Direct Debit and explained what had happened in my cancellation proforma/letter.

Scottish Power had serviced my boiler twice and made no mention of the 'Flue in a Void', my boiler was not given a 'At Risk notice until last Friday. SSE had previously said my Flue was not up to current standards as per the Gas safe/Corgi or HSE advice in 2011.

Last night I had a call on my mobile to ring Scottish Power, I was told that a senior engineer was going to inspect my boiler today and give a second opinion, plus a service, he would ring 30 minutes before arrival. I had made no secret that I had cancelled my contract which hadn't run out yet, I honestly thought that they were trying to do the right thing.

I waited in the house all day and there was no contact, I rang Scottish Power at 4pm and they told me the visit had been cancelled as I had stopped my Direct Debit, which incidentally covers the new contract period. As you can imagine I was not happy with this, however Scottish Power are adamant that I cancelled the contract, even though the engineer said it was probably void on Friday, this was apparently his reason for not servicing my boiler when he was on site.

I have asked Scottish Power for my 2015 payments back as a refund so I can employ someone else to service the boiler in the interim, not the best time to get someone two days before Christmas.

I had a negative response to that query for a refund.

Is there any one out there I can contact to arbitrate on this contractual issue with Scottish Power Home Care?

Advise Please, is Martin there?

johnpr98

This guidance is a minefield for a layman like me

I have complained to Scottish Power Boiler Complaints and I am now awaiting their judgement before proceeding further with trying to get recompense from them for not servicing my boiler in the contract period.

However I am suspicious that this 'Flue in a Void' guidance may not be aimed at my type of boiler installation?

Technical Bulletin 008 (Edition 3)
Developed by the Industry Flues In Voids Working Group
Title: Existing concealed room-sealed fanned-draught boiler
chimney/flue systems in domestic premises.
https://engineers.gassaferegister.co.uk/doc/FluesInVoids/TB%20008Ed%203%20-%20Existing%20concealed%20room-sealed%20fanned-draught%20boiler%20chimney%20-%20flue%20systems%20-%201%20April%202013.pdf

I don't have a room sealed boiler. As far as I know have an open vented (external air vent) floor mounted boiler. I recall British Gas used a flexible metallic pipe when they installed the boiler flue in my chimney, which would probably mean a joint each end.

Also the TB 139(4) paragraph on the second page about "does not apply" to a constructional chimney also gives me doubt.

Of course as a lay person I may be very wide of the mark and will take the safe route after a second opinion from a independent Gassafe engineer in 2016.

johnpr98

Gassafe and Baxi Technical have now confirmed (After having my boiler GC number) that my open flue boiler installation is not covered by the TB 800 'room sealed' guidance notes and the engineer giving my boiler a 'At Risk' safety notice was not correct in this instance.

A good lesson in getting a 2nd and 3rd opinion in such matters, however my boiler has not been serviced for 15 months and Scottish Power have had my money in advance for doing so.

If anyone reading this finds themselves in a similar position to me, my advice is to ring your boiler manufacturer for accurate advice as a first course of action.

johnpr98

A quick update, my boiler has now been serviced with no faults and my monthly payments to SP have been refunded + a bit extra for the misinformation and messing about with missed appointments.
From now on I will pay for my boiler servicing locally and any repairs as and when they are required, if I'd done this 10 years ago I would have saved enough to buy 50% of a new system.

Of course YMMV in a similar situation

TanDiy

Hi. BG / Johnson Starley also told us that the regulation only applies to fan assisted boilers and that our open flu warm air system is fine.