eBay & PayPal To Split Up

kheemonahs

soolin wrote: »

At the moment paypal is obligatory in all categories apart from motor ones, and for newer users it is the only option available. Also a seller cannot refuse to take paypal if a buyer wants to use it.

If you believe that is going to change and PayPal will not be obligatory then I think many sellers will rejoice rather than see it asa bad thing.

I think that my original posting is being either ignored, misread or misunderstood.
Let me explain it another way, the notice by PayPal of a change to the the PayPal User Agreement needs to be looked at by somebody with experience of assessing these sort of documents and explain to the many thousands of effected people if they should be happy or concerned about accepting these changes, and if not happy what, if any , the options are.
In my experience this is what Martin Lewis in the past has done the best, sticking up for the masses against the bulldozing corporate machine.
All I have tried to achieve is to somehow bring this issue to his attention and to get his slant on it.
I am not and will never be a subscriber to social media so I can't Tweet him etc and now days you can't email a direct question that would come to his attention

ih8stress

soolin wrote: »

At the moment paypal is obligatory in all categories apart from motor ones, and for newer users it is the only option available. Also a seller cannot refuse to take paypal if a buyer wants to use it.

If you believe that is going to change and PayPal will not be obligatory then I think many sellers will rejoice rather than see it asa bad thing.

I knew that Paypal and Ebay were to split soon but haven't had chance to look into it yet.
I for one was hoping it would mean an end to paypal being obligatory as I would be tempted to start selling on Ebay again. I've only listed 3 things since the 6 month rule came into effect.

I would be interested to know 'in layman's terms' what the proposals are. (Which is why I looked at this post in the first place).

RFW

ih8stress wrote: »

I would be interested to know 'in layman's terms' what the proposals are. (Which is why I looked at this post in the first place).

There's going to be no noticeable difference for a user of Ebay as regards having to accept Paypal for the foreseeable future.

kheemonahs

RFW wrote: »

There's going to be no noticeable difference for a user of Ebay as regards having to accept Paypal for the foreseeable future.

Explain in depth please.

RFW

kheemonahs wrote: »

Explain in depth please.

As I posted earlier, Ebay and Paypal have formed an agreement that Ebay has to accept at least 80% of payment by Paypal, there are multi million dollar penalties/bonuses for percentage points above and below that figure.
Also, as part of the agreement the fees are to remain the same. It also prevents Ebay from setting up their own payment system but doesn't stop them from accepting others. Although given the agreement with Paypal they are unlikely to do so unless they get a really good deal. Paypal will be able to pursue other marketplaces if they like, again I couldn't imagine Amazon would entertain them and most other marketplaces already accept Paypal. I can't see anywhere where it says how long the agreement is for, from my limited knowledge, they're usually at least 5 years but I suspect this will be longer.

If you have insomnia the entire document is here

kheemonahs

kheemonahs wrote: »

Explain in depth please.

One Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement.


A new paragraph at section 1.3 reads as follows:


“When providing us with content or posting content (in each case for publication, whether on- or off-line) using the Services, you grant the PayPal Group a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sub-licensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trademarks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against the PayPal Group, its sublicensees or assignees. You represent and warrant that none of the following infringe any intellectual property right: your provision of content to us, your posting of content using the Services, and the PayPal Group’s use of such content (including of works derived from it) in connection with the Services.”


Is this good or bad?

RFW

kheemonahs wrote: »

One Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement.


A new paragraph at section 1.3 reads as follows:


“When providing us with content or posting content (in each case for publication, whether on- or off-line) using the Services, you grant the PayPal Group a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sub-licensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trademarks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against the PayPal Group, its sublicensees or assignees. You represent and warrant that none of the following infringe any intellectual property right: your provision of content to us, your posting of content using the Services, and the PayPal Group’s use of such content (including of works derived from it) in connection with the Services.”


Is this good or bad?

Most comments I've seen don't seem to know what this is all about, ie why Paypal are doing it.
My guess is it is covering their backside for selling downloads, that may turn out to be plagiarised or just stolen.
If you sell downloadable books, music or similar you might want to reassess using Paypal.
The most pertinent part is "Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law". The law will protect someone against Paypal just taking ownership of their property. I can't see it would have anything to do with Ebay and its sellers.

kheemonahs

RFW wrote: »

Most comments I've seen don't seem to know what this is all about, ie why Paypal are doing it.
My guess is it is covering their backside for selling downloads, that may turn out to be plagiarised or just stolen.
If you sell downloadable books, music or similar you might want to reassess using Paypal.
The most pertinent part is "Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law". The law will protect someone against Paypal just taking ownership of their property. I can't see it would have anything to do with Ebay and its sellers.

When I read things like "Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against the PayPal Group, its sub licensees or assignees" alarm bells start ringing, if I have rights why are they trying to get me to sign them away, so this is why I have the dilemma I want to still use eBay but not at ANY cost.
I do not give up my rights without having a damn good reason and so far nobody has offered a reason at all other than if you still want to use eBay accept the conditions, that is corporate blackmail.
if an alternative were made available it would be ok but it would seem that there won't be.
As a by the way, I also received notification of eBay changes to User Agreement which I haven't had a chance to look at yet, I wonder what rights I will have to sign away there to be able to keep using them?

RFW

kheemonahs wrote: »

I do not give up my rights without having a damn good reason and so far nobody has offered a reason at all other than if you still want to use eBay accept the conditions, that is corporate blackmail.
if an alternative were made available it would be ok but it would seem that there won't be.

It's getting to be standard though and Facebook, Google, Apple et al all have similar terms/conditions. It may well be that they are planning to take over everyone's intellectual property and that we won't be doing anything about it, until then if you want to get paid online you'll likely be stuck with accepting Paypal.
There are a few alternatives around within and beyond Ebay but buyers tend not to use them. I was at a conference about marketing online a couple of weeks ago and the chap leading it thought I was crazy when I said some people don't like using Paypal. Any payment alternatives will likely copy Paypal's terms anyway.

It's really why most of us don't read certain terms and conditions, there's usually little we can do about them anyway. If I have a decent alternative I may check terms, if not there's little point aggravating myself until I need to.

kheemonahs

RFW wrote: »

It's getting to be standard though and Facebook, Google, Apple et al all have similar terms/conditions. It may well be that they are planning to take over everyone's intellectual property and that we won't be doing anything about it, until then if you want to get paid online you'll likely be stuck with accepting Paypal.
There are a few alternatives around within and beyond Ebay but buyers tend not to use them. I was at a conference about marketing online a couple of weeks ago and the chap leading it thought I was crazy when I said some people don't like using Paypal. Any payment alternatives will likely copy Paypal's terms anyway.

It's really why most of us don't read certain terms and conditions, there's usually little we can do about them anyway. If I have a decent alternative I may check terms, if not there's little point aggravating myself until I need to.

"Facebook, Google, Apple et al all have similar terms/conditions"


The very reason I don't use any of them, and it seems increasingly likely that PayPal, and as a result eBay as well will go on the list.


With regards to your last remark in the above reply, look through recent history, when customers get dissatisfied they walk resulting with the largest of companies going down the pan!