Didnt declare savings

konark

so how much would overpayment have been if they had 50k savings over 5-6 years?

you haven't told us their full financial details but let's estimate ;

6 years HB at £400? pcm =£30,000 ish
6 years Pension Credit at £50 a week= £ 18,000 ish
6 years CTC at £1000 pa = £6,000 ish
(all three benefits means tested)

£54,000 ish aaaaaaargh

Obviously they would have become eligible for these benefits once they were down to £10,000 so that probably overstates it......slightly!

You say they no longer have the money so it's difficult to see how this will get found out now, depending on how long it is since they gifted this money. I'm surprised they haven't been found out already though; the cash in the bank will have attracted (risible) interest which will have had to be declared to HMRC who may have told DWP.

I know I'll get shot down for saying this but if this hasn't been discovered already it probably never will be, considering that the money is now gone anyway. However the benefits agencies find out they are so screwed it's worth taking the risk, if it ever comes to light they can just claim ignorance or maintain it was somene else's money.

With regard to criminal proceedings, whatever the climate in relation to benefit fraud ,pensioners being penalised for having some savings (instead of boozing it all away etc) does not play well with either public or tabloid sentiment and it's unlikely they would be taken to court.

Feel free to argue, but that's my opinion!

Weary_soul

I don't suppose the Diminishing notional capital rule could be used in this instance? That would help reduce any overpayments quite a bit.

That or the diminishing capital calculation (which is slightly different).

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forum-archive/index7f40.html

rogerblack

Weary_soul wrote: »

I don't suppose the Diminishing notional capital rule could be used in this instance? That would help reduce any overpayments quite a bit.

Yes, in principle it helps.
The problem is that in general, notional capital is not calculated for each benefit seperately.
So, your HB if you have 50K too much will start to be paid again once you'd have got about 34K, as will JSA or ...
But - if you've claiming three means-tested benefits, you in effect need to 'repay' this three times, as the calculations are not linked.

SailorSam

OP i've just fonnd a similar thread here on Mse from 4yrs ago.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3382650

I've not read it but see if there's anything useful to you.

billywilly

NYM wrote: »

I'm sure you read the opening post



Posters have been asked their advice/opinion and that's exactly what has been given.

There is little point in pretending that their *forgotten* savings of £50,000 is an oversight, a mistake. Even if it were a genuine error in completing their forms and declaring only £8,000 of it, if they continue to claim means tested benefit now that they *remember* they have £50,000 they are committing fraud.

Whether you personally know of 'many situations' has nothing to do with the OP situation.

I agree with you that they should get advice from an independent source: I would suggest a Solicitor.

I'm not disputing what the OP has said. But if there was a Guaranteed Pension Credit award in place beit for 5 years (normal) of life (if they are old enough) AND the capital did not exist when the award was made, then they could have millions in the bank and still be entitled to their GPC as well as maximum HB & CTS. They would not have to disclose the increase in capital until the next PC review.


Additionally it appears that there is situation that the money may not belong to them. It may be someone else's money that is being held in their bank account for safe keeping.
On paper I am as poor as a church mouse, yet I have available cash funds elsewhere legally out of reach of any means tested calculations totalling in excess of £100,000! The opposite may apply to the OP.
As I have said, the OP hasn't given us enough info to make any judgement.

Weary_soul

rogerblack wrote: »

Yes, in principle it helps.
The problem is that in general, notional capital is not calculated for each benefit seperately.
So, your HB if you have 50K too much will start to be paid again once you'd have got about 34K, as will JSA or ...
But - if you've claiming three means-tested benefits, you in effect need to 'repay' this three times, as the calculations are not linked.

Yes I gather that. Personally I don't think thats fair.

But it does drop an overpayment down, even by a small amount. As the CAB states councils and the DWP love to forget about this calculation even though it's in the recovery handbook regulations.

billywilly

Weary_soul wrote: »

Yes I gather that. Personally I don't think thats fair.

But it does drop an overpayment down, even by a small amount. As the CAB states councils and the DWP love to forget about this calculation even though it's in the recovery handbook regulations.

They also generally kick and scream if they are asked to reduce an overpayment by an alternative benefit that could have been claimed legally but wasn't.

vanilla_twist

My understanding is that if not declared should either die within 7 years of disposing of the capital then it will be found during probate. Any overpayment of benefits is taken from the deceased's estate.
Everything comes out in the wash in the end.

V x

Mojisola

vanilla_twist wrote: »

My understanding is that if not declared should either die within 7 years of disposing of the capital then it will be found during probate. Any overpayment of benefits is taken from the deceased's estate.

The 7 year rule only applies to inheritance tax.

The DWP will go back to when the fraud started.

cheekyweegit

Tonytone11 wrote: »

so if they now reported there savings accuractly whats the chances of the investigators actually looking back?
and is there a time frame how far back they can check?

In my line of work I'm quite partial to the date 06.10.2003. I think some posters on here may recognise it.