Manifest Stupidity IV: The SNP Launch A Thousand Manfesti

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

The Tories are left trying to cover the ridiculous situation caused by Labour setting up completely unnecessary and very expensive 'parliaments' in Scotland and Wales.

There is a nasty Nationalist element to the Tories which I don't like but they are very much on the fringe and have largely abandoned ship for UKIP. Good riddance frankly.

Can you see the conservatives manipulating the break up of the UK behind the scenes whilst appearing to remain Unionist at the front door.

I can see this being Conservative policy as if / when the union breaks up, they can say they tried to keep it together whilst quietly happy that it would effectively result in them always having a majority government at Westminster.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Can you see the conservatives manipulating the break up of the UK behind the scenes whilst appearing to remain Unionist at the front door.

I can see this being Conservative policy as if / when the union breaks up, they can say they tried to keep it together whilst quietly happy that it would effectively result in them always having a majority government at Westminster.

No I can't. Unionism is at the heart of Conservatism in the UK.

The Conservatives would gain massively from Scotland leaving the UK in electoral terms but don't want to because it's at odds with their ideology.

For decades they supported Barnett (which effectively transfers money from their supporters to Labour and now SNP supporters). For decades they supported voters in the non-English nations requiring far fewer votes to elect an MP. All of that is hugely to their disadvantage yet they supported it to support the Union.

Perhaps the next generation of idiot MPs that have move from student politics to special advisor to MP that are receiving advice from the same types could vote for that in a generation but I simply can't see the current Conservative party doing that. Any Conservative leader that broke up the Union would be vilified as MacDonald is in Labour circles.

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

No I can't. Unionism is at the heart of Conservatism in the UK.

Historically maybe, but past ideologies does not guarantee future plans.

Maybe this staunch support of the union was prevalent when there was really only a 2 party system, but as politics and the electorate move on, would ideologies change to safeguard the party?

The only reason I see the Conservatives wishing to remain in the union is to maintain the numbers and strength they have in Europe, which otherwise would be weakened if they lost 10% of the population.

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Historically maybe, but past ideologies does not guarantee future plans.

Maybe this staunch support of the union was prevalent when there was really only a 2 party system, but as politics and the electorate move on, would ideologies change to safeguard the party?

The only reason I see the Conservatives wishing to remain in the union is to maintain the numbers and strength they have in Europe, which otherwise would be weakened if they lost 10% of the population.

Nope, they really are Unionists.

IveSeenTheLight

Generali wrote: »

Nope, they really are Unionists.

How can you be so sure of what the internal beliefs are of the current Conservative party?

Their policies are segregating themselves to try and appease the UKIP defectors

Generali

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

How can you be so sure of what the internal beliefs are of the current Conservative party?

Their policies are segregating themselves to try and appease the UKIP defectors

They're just Unionists. It's what they are. You can say that you think they're not but that just makes you look like an idiot which frankly you're not.

It's rather like saying that the SNP are secret Unionists because they gain an advantage from Barnett. It would be an equally ludicrous assertion.

As to whether the Conservatives will still be Unionists in twenty years? God might know but I don't.