[Reposted from DFW] Natwest are closing my accounts in 60 days - help!

BlasphemousRumours

I posted over on the DFW board last night and have had a bit of feedback but was wondering if any of you lovely people over here could share experiences or advice.

Original post is here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5218128

Basically Natwest have sent me a letter saying that all my accounts will be closed in 60 days and they they will no longer be able to provide me with banking facilities.

I've opened and closed multiple accounts over the past six months (I'm assuming this is the reason they have decided to close all of my accounts - abuse of their facilities?). I've read that opening and closing lots of accounts can flag up suspicions for money laundering (I'm so NOT doing anything of the sort but I know I've been stupid and acted naively). Is opening and closing too many accounts enough to warrant them adding a CIFAS marker? Can they add a marker based only on suspicion?

There is nothing else suspicious going on. I get paid one monthly salary from the NHS and I move it around different Natwest savings/current accounts that are all in my name. There's no large deposits, no transactions to foreign accounts, I'm not running a business through my accounts.

I'm going to send off a CIFAS SAR tomorrow morning but I feel completley helpless this evening!

Archi_Bald

BlasphemousRumours wrote: »

I've opened and closed multiple accounts over the past six months

How many accounts have you opened and closed in what period of time and why? How did you close your accounts?

BlasphemousRumours

Archi_Bald wrote: »

How many accounts have you opened and closed in what period of time and why? How did you close your accounts?

Upwards of 20 in the last 6-8 months.

They were mainly savings accounts that I wanted to use to allocate different pots of money to, I'd then change my mind and close the account (by letter sent to my local branch). Then I'd decide on another pot that I needed and open another savings account. I also swapped my main current account a couple of times and had a couple of other current accounts for different things.

I was trying to perfect my budgeting strategy and kept thinking that once I'd made a mistake with an account (spent money I shouldn't have done for e.g.) I needed a "fresh start" so opened a new account. All very very stupid I now realise.

magpiecottage

I can't say that I blame them.

Even if you are not acting with suspicious intent, you are putting them to a massive amount of work for little or no reward.

Not the sort of customer that keeps you in business for long.

BlasphemousRumours

magpiecottage wrote: »

I can't say that I blame them.

Even if you are not acting with suspicious intent, you are putting them to a massive amount of work for little or no reward.

Not the sort of customer that keeps you in business for long.

I don't blame them either. I'm honestly not here for sympathy or anything like that - I know I've been stupid. My main worry is the threat of a CIFAS marker.

I was wondering if anyone knew if banks can add CIFAS markers based on suspicion alone (i.e. "she's opening and closing a lot of accounts - this looks suspicious") or do they have to have evidence of illegal activity (i.e. "she's cashed a fake cheque").

Ed-1

BlasphemousRumours wrote: »

I posted over on the DFW board last night and have had a bit of feedback but was wondering if any of you lovely people over here could share experiences or advice.

Original post is here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5218128

Basically Natwest have sent me a letter saying that all my accounts will be closed in 60 days and they they will no longer be able to provide me with banking facilities.

I've opened and closed multiple accounts over the past six months (I'm assuming this is the reason they have decided to close all of my accounts - abuse of their facilities?). I've read that opening and closing lots of accounts can flag up suspicions for money laundering (I'm so NOT doing anything of the sort but I know I've been stupid and acted naively). Is opening and closing too many accounts enough to warrant them adding a CIFAS marker? Can they add a marker based only on suspicion?

There is nothing else suspicious going on. I get paid one monthly salary from the NHS and I move it around different Natwest savings/current accounts that are all in my name. There's no large deposits, no transactions to foreign accounts, I'm not running a business through my accounts.

I'm going to send off a CIFAS SAR tomorrow morning but I feel completley helpless this evening!

You shouldn't have a CIFAS marker but that's not to say you don't.

Funnily enough (or not really ) I received the same 60 day closure letter from Natwest after opening several accounts as donors to switch over to Yorkshire Bank. This suggests they have a department that are particularly suspicious over multiple applications over a short period. I don't have a CIFAS marker and rightly so as banks should only register someone with CIFAS if there is a standard of evidence that fraud has been committed (i.e. enough to prove the fraud in a court of law).

However: around the same time as I got that letter a friend of mine got a letter just like it from Lloyds and Halifax and he subsequently found that he did have a CIFAS warning on the database which he is still fighting. He was transferring his money totally legitimately on a daily basis between two of his accounts with different banks (one with Lloyds, the other outside of Lloyds group) to "double-up" on interest (different cut-off times with each bank). Of course this isn't fraud and a judge would probably throw the case out within minutes if it was put before them but he ended up with a CIFAS warning anyway which just illustrates the problem with an unregulated database such as CIFAS where banks can register someone at their own pleasure without having any real proof, only suspicions.

As you rightly say, banks shouldn't register on CIFAS based on suspicions but that's not to say they can't.

In particular, the "misuse of facility" category 6 marker is not for banks to register you just as they feel you've abused their accounts but instead is only to be used if there is proof that the accounts were deliberately opened to receive fraudulent transfers.

Having said that I doubt you will be registered on the CIFAS database so calm down(!) but until you have the SAR back don't apply for anything else credit-based. Have you applied for anything since you got the letter?

Nowadays banks closing accounts (especially the big 2: Lloyds group and RBS group) is becoming more common. It seems if anything flags up with them and during their investigation they see you are unprofitable as well as potentially at risk of doing something fraudulent (for which they could be hit with big fines for not complying with regulations) they decide to issue 60 day closure notice as the default decision to get shot of the issue. Any consideration for the customer went out of the window years ago.

BlasphemousRumours

Ed-1 wrote: »

Having said that I doubt you will be registered on the CIFAS database so calm down(!) but until you have the SAR back don't apply for anything else credit-based. Have you applied for anything since you got the letter?

No, haven't applied for anything since receiving the letter. I've got a Lloyds account already so I've set up the switching process to swap my SOs and DDs over asap.

Thank you for your reply - my gut is telling me that there won't be a CIFAS marker but I'm a natural worrier so I'm thinking of all the worst case scenarios!

stclair

Stop fretting they won't register a CIFAS marker.

They will be just closing your account due to the excess of them.

BlasphemousRumours

stclair wrote: »

Stop fretting they won't register a CIFAS marker.

They will be just closing your account due to the excess of them.

Thank you!

And you work for the RBS Group so I have to believe you because you know what you're talking about *repeats this to self over and over*



(Still going to get the SAR though )

stclair

BlasphemousRumours wrote: »

Thank you!

And you work for the RBS Group so I have to believe you because you know what you're talking about *repeats this to self over and over*



(Still going to get the SAR though )

Their isn't even a category for it to even fit into on the CIFAS database. They are giving you 60 days notice so it can't be that serious.

Also bare in mind if a CIFAS is registered they might not do it straight away. They might wait until the accounts are closed so that means you'll have to get another one a few weeks after.

If I was you I'd empty the accounts then just close them of your own accord.

pmduk

If they close accounts dueto grounds for a CIFAS marker, they'd do so immediately rather than give you 60 days notice.