Parking notice from NGP

Castle

misterbarlow wrote: »

ok thanks.
Due to the wording on the signs saying "PARKING TARIFF & TERMS APPLY" with a big blue P on it, and said tariff is £100 per or part day, or free with permission, will they try to argue that they are not charging for any losses, but its a car park where the charge is £100 per day and that's all they are charging for??

Well, if they allow you to park there for £100 then they must have given you permission; therefore, the parking must be free?

misterbarlow

thats a good contradiction to use actually..

misterbarlow

So I've had my expected rejection letter from NGP today.
Basically two pages waffling on about alleged gpeol!

misterbarlow

I've been tweeking my popla letter all weekend and its pretty much covering everything, however it is SIX pages long now, with two photos.
Do they prefer things short and sweet, or the more detail the better..
I do write pretty detailed complaint letters and always get my way (normally).
And the popla leaflet says they prefer electronic. should i email or post it?

Basically in summary, the main points are.

gpeol
NGPs rejection states their business model would break down if the public didn't pay its car parks or permits fees, and its or its clients revenue stream would be damaged if they didn't issue PCNs.
This is not a paid car park but an access road, no regular charge is made to park here, the signs appear prohibitive in nature to prevent ALL parking, and the charge is a disguised penalty. So there is no regular revenue stream for parking here, so no loss can be alleged.
Vehicles with permission can park free, so why do vehicles without it suddenly incur a loss for them?
Vehicles can drive onto, visit premises, and off from this land all day without incurring losses, but as soon as they stop and turn off the engine they magically incur losses. Complete nonsense!
A vehicle could park here all week and if they didnt check, at the end of that week they would have lost nothing by it being there.
Any alleged losses are self generating, as they only come into being when the operator takes it on themselves to issue a PCN.

Confusing signage/no contract
Junction entrance has no signs indicating its private land, in fact standard council street name signs give assumption its public land.
No signs indicating any boundary of public and private land.
Signs mounted on fences and gates give impression they relate to land beyond those fences not the road in front.
Sign on a substation says blocking gate will be clamped, how can two companies charge on the same land?
No road markings or bays to indicate where you can and cannot park.
Signs are placed on fences at angles facing away from the road, so were unseen!
Signs are contradictory (the photo I linked earlier in thread) hence confusing and ambiguous.
No normal person of sound mind would accept such a punitive contract had they seen, read, and fully understood the terms/signs, especially as a council pay and display is only 50m away, so signs were either not seen or not fully understood due to ambiguous placement and contradictory nature, so there was no acceptance and no contract between parties.

Invalid NTK
NTK only states a time, not a period of parking, does not constitute proof of parking.

Lack of standing authority from landowner.
cut and pasted from other letters asking to see contract etc.

unreasonable and unfair terms
cut and pasted again from others.

anything else i should add, or indeed leave out??
thanks

misterbarlow

One more thing..
I have only just noticed an error on the NTK for some reason, and need some advice before adding and sending my popla appeal, which I was hoping to send off tomorrow.

The street and postcode on the NTK is NOT where the vehicle was parked, but an adjacent street with a similar name, but they are two different roads and have different postcodes.
Ooops what a shame!!!
This fails POFA Para 8(2)(a) "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked" and I can challenge NGP to prove the vehicle was ever parked where they claim!

Firstly do I send this error back to the operator and suggest they dismiss the charge before POPLA inevitably do anyway?? Or just press on to POPLA?

In the POPLA appeal, do I state just that it was never parked where stated, or do I advise the assessor of the address where it was photographed to highlight the difference and the error??
How to I prove to the assessor that the address on the ntk is incorrect without confirming the vehicle was indeed parked somewhere or is that for them to find out??
I'm not sure!!

thanks

Coupon-mad

And the popla leaflet says they prefer electronic. should i email or post it?

Neither; just Google 'POPLA make an appeal' and put it in the webpage for that purpose.

Firstly do I send this error back to the operator and suggest they dismiss the charge before POPLA inevitably do anyway?? Or just press on to POPLA?

Always press on with POPLA, your appeal time clock is ticking; never revert to the PPC at this stage.

In the POPLA appeal, do I state just that it was never parked where stated, or do I advise the assessor of the address where it was photographed to highlight the difference and the error??
How to I prove to the assessor that the address on the ntk is incorrect without confirming the vehicle was indeed parked somewhere or is that for them to find out?? I'm not sure!!

You should state that the NTK fails POFA Para 8*(2)(a) where it must "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked". Then say exactly where the vehicle was parked according to the driver (BE CAREFUL NOT TO RUSH THIS, DON'T ACCIDENTALLY SAY WHO PARKED!). You should confirm where it was parked by 'the driver', basically an incorrect location should be fatal to the Notice as long as you've never said who was driving.

Surely there are other omissions in the NTK wording? Surely they do not get every part of Schedule 4 right including saying they don't know the name and address of the driver and to 'pass the notice to the driver' if naming them?




* if there was no windscreen PCN, only a fairly early postal one (not a letter a month or two later, saying there was a PCN 'given to the driver' or served) then it's para 9 not para 8.

misterbarlow

thanks.
Yes they do state "they do not know the driver, so the keepers address was obtained from the dvla as per the sign".

didn't realise you could upload direct on the site..
chocks away then, its been sent in its entirety.. 6 pages plus photos...
time to sit back and await my win!!!

misterbarlow

The date of my appeal from POPLA was tuesday this week, and I had not had any 'evidence pack' from the PPC sent to myself, so when I mentioned on another thread on Monday I was advised to contact popla and check.

I emailed them on monday asking if they had anything?
They have replied today (thurs, 2 days after initial appeal date given) stating they were sent it by NGP on 01/05 and will add to the file that I was not sent anything, but that I should contact the operator and request a copy if I want it, they have not sent me a copy themselves, or specified if they are giving me an extension to review it and reply or not, seeing as the appeal date has now already passed!!

Bearing in mind it took them three days for them to reply to that mail if I reply again asking about an extension it will be Mon/Tue before they reply to that one and by then they may already have ruled on it??

The same applies for NGP, if I email them now requesting it, they are unlikely to send me anything anytime before Tues/Wed, if I am lucky...


Is it worth bothering at this late stage now three days post appeal date??
I have already made my case and any anything they say is irrelevant really, as I wont be paying it regardless of the decision!! It just cuts out some of the hassle.

misterbarlow

*bumped* as thread now dropped onto page4 over the weekend..

Still trying to get any advice please on above post..

I emailed NGP anyway on Thursday last week after posting above, asking for copy of their evidence pack.
Not had anything yet from them, still no more contact from popla since Thurs either, so unsure if they have delayed my appeal date or not??

How ovderdue from the intial given date due they usually overrun??

Thanks.

ColliesCarer

Hard to say how close to the assessment date the assessment will actually be done but POPLA are often 1 - 2 weeks late.

Email a complaint to Steve Clarke at the BPA Ltd about NGP's failure to comply with the BPA Code of Practise

22.16c It is a clear requirement of POPLA that evidence packs
are sent to the appellant at the same time as they are
sent to POPLA. Failure to do this will be considered a
Sanctionable Breach of the Code.

and ask what sanctions will be imposed on NGP for this flagrant breach of process.

Email addy for S Clarke will be found in post #6 of NEWBIES.

Also email POPLA to record the fact that despite you having to request the information that should have been provided in accordance with POPLA's requirements and the BPA CoP - the operator has still failed to provide you with a copy and ask for your appeal to be upheld as you have been given no right to reply because the evidence has not been received both by the appellant and POPLA within the deadline.