Parking notice from NGP

enfield_freddy

its a piggin INVOICE for a supposed service , NOT a fine or motoring offence , sort it out NOw or get more invoices from the lease company ,


can I invoice you £10 for washing your windscreen?


like redx , I,m ,,,,,,,,,,

Umkomaas

@OP - the knowledge of regulars is built from dealing with thousands of cases we've dealt with/advised on over the past few years. Advice is given freely in our own time. We are trying to help dozens of people in your situation, day in, day out. It's just not possible to debate the ins and outs of the elephant's backside with everyone. There's no more than around 10 regulars giving accurate and up to date advice on this forum.

If it becomes too difficult or protracted because of endless debate/argument over (moot) points we've been over endless times, we tend to move on to help those we can quickly help.

We really are trying to help - but some of us are at this for more than 12 hours a day, most days, some from half way around the world, so please go along with what we advise. The alternative to this free, contemporary advice is to hire a lawyer @ c£500 per hour (and who won't understand this as well as regulars do) - it's your call, your choice.

NGP is a lightweight PPC, which, if you follow advice, is easily beatable. In fact, more than that, you have the possibility of caning them financially for 'messing' with you, as OAP hero Derek Donovan did, recounted in this linked thread. Read, digest, learn, and eventually action!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66659212&postcount=9

Redx

in that case ask coupon-mad to change that part , I didnt write it and she has changed the template letter to cover all eventualities

I cannot edit that post so not my problem

you asked for advice so I gave it in good faith

I know exactly what those words they have used mean, but using a slang term for it does not help matters, it hinders them when faced with an invoice like this one

you have no fine , you have committed no offence , I doubt it mentions charging you for any invoices they receive

this part is what they should have done however

it will, wherever possible be returned to the issuing authority
nominating you as the driver. They will then contact you at your home address as provided by us."

so they are being stupid in not following that path due to POFA 2012 (I doubt they have changed their terms to include POFA 2012)

all you do is send the template letter with your name and address, nothing more , to NGP- with free proof of posting from the P.O.

dont make it harder than it is, you asked for advice and received it, its your choice if you follow it as its your money not mine

its not my job to explain all this to you, seek out and pay for a solicitor if thats what you wanted

I have told you what to do, why , and the words to use (again not my fault if you choose to differ from this path , but bear in mind you are into legal jargon now, not slang words - its best not to dress things up , just call them what they are)

this is serious stuff, so I make no apology for being serious about it and pulling you up on incorrect terminology, its a trap I fell into 2 years ago when researching this , so 2 years later I have built up a fair amount of knowledge and try to assist others like yourself, sometimes its TUFF LUV but if thats how it has to be , sobeit

dont make assumptions, take the blinkers off , read what has been posted so it doesnt have to be repeated , thats all we ask

misterbarlow

thanks redx, and everyone else, I do appreciate the time you have all given me on this...

Redx

I should also point out you cannot appeal as driver as you said yourself that you were not the driver ! ( pay attention , lol )

it could have been me that was driving (think about it) - nobody but you knows who was driving at the time , certainly not your firm and not NGP either and its clearly the spouse in this case (according to your anecdote)

as I have pointed out in many other threads , take this as being one scenario (of several scenarios)

there is an owner of the vehicle (could be a credit company)

there is a Registered Keeper on the V5C at the DVLA (could be the hire company)

there is the KEEPER of the vehicle (in this case, YOU - the keeper/lessee/hirer of the vehicle)

there is a driver of the vehicle (could be you , your wife , me , coupon-mad , umkomaas , enfield-freddy , millions of other uk drivers)

now sometimes its all the same person , but not in this case , especially not in this case

Umkomaas

there is a driver of the vehicle (could be you , your wife , me , coupon-mad , [STRIKE]umkomass[/STRIKE] , enfield-freddy , millions of other uk drivers)

Umkomaas - Googly is you're frend! Spellin' is evryfink! :rotfl:

misterbarlow

Apologies for appearing to know nothing about this, but basically I don't.
I've been driving 25yrs and this is my first ever parking notice of any type (whether official council fine or private invoice) so I am bit vague on the ins and outs tbh..

So just thinking ahead, i'm assuming these companies don't just roll over as soon as a template dispute letter arrives, and its more than likely this will be rejected by them to popla.

So I gather my argument to popla would have to be a technical one, rather than mitigating circumstances of "the venue told us it was ok to park outside if the car park was full?"

Its not known yet, but just assuming the signs are legally fine, what actual technical argument do we have for the car being parked there for popla, under a sign saying private land no parking at any time unless you agree the tariff of £100?

And should popla rule in favour of NGP, is it then I just start ignoring demands from them for payment for ever??
(We are 3yrs into a 12yr DMP and owe £45k+ so threats and phone calls and DCA's etc dont bother us any more, we've been down that road many times..)

Redx

seems to me you are getting more of this topic, yet have failed to look at or grasp the POPLA aspect of it despite there being links to examples in post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread, and despite there being a SUCCESSFUL POPLA APPEALS sticky thread that has dozens and dozens of outcomes and comments, despite there being a POPLA website for over 2.5 years detailing what they do

yes we know you are new to it and are assuming a lot (contracts and details at work, signage etc) - we all were - once !

that is why we require you to read all the info, over and over again, until the penny drops , same as we all have done

so its true , its rare they "fall over" at initial appeal stage

they dont like giving out POPLA codes

you have to deal with the template appeal and the popla appeal in a timely manner as there are time limits on these 2 issues

if you win at popla, thats the end of it

there are dozens of POPLA examples you could look at , to see those technical arguments used (post #3 of the NEWBIES thread)

if you fail , its 6 years of debt collector letters and in this case not likely to go to court (never say never though so read post #4 of the NEWBIES thread) )- so it could end up in small claims court (so read post #5 of the NEWBIES thread)

in other cases like Parking Eye then thousands of people are taken to court each year

as for the signage, I have told you that all that matters is that it meets to BPA CoP , so download the latest CoP and read it (BPA website)

see what they have to provide as members for compliancy, see if the NTK complies , see if the signage complies , assume nothing , question everything

and yes the popla appeal will also rely on the same appeal points (and maybe more) as the template letter (not mitigation as they do not allow for mitigation)

so we have the NEWBIES sticky thread in pride of place - for NEWBIES

and the POPLA DECISIONS sticky thread, for inspiration (the top 2 sticky threads)

the aim is to stop the same old questions, as once people have read and digested the sticky threads they should know the process and what they are looking for

Fruitcake

misterbarlow wrote: »

It is a leased salary sacrifice company car paid for via my payroll.
Its in the T&Cs that they can pay any fine and take it from my pay if I don't pay them myself, and they can charge the admin fee.

But it isn't a fine and therefore if the lease company pay the parking charge: -


1 They are idiots and not following the BVRLA CoP that states they must pass the name of the hirer to the PPC thus absolving them of all liability.


2 They cannot legally pass the charge on to you.


Are you a member of a Trade Union? Do you have a clued up Union Rep that will take on the company you work for over this.


I've dealt with two of these in my capacity as a Unite Union rep and won both cases for two employees that I represent. One was council, one was private.


It can be done, just follow the most excellent free advice from the regulars and don't over think things. The advice has been reviewed and distilled down over several years to something that works in most cases as long as the advice is followed.

Fruitcake

misterbarlow wrote: »

ie, you say above i am KEEPER and DONT name the driver, but newbie sticky thread says

Quote:
If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car)

Well mine is, so its telling me to appeal as the driver despite you telling me to appeal as keeper!!! So which is it?? not made it any less clear!!

The NEWBIES thread says If you have to appeal as driver ...


But it has been explained that in your case you don't have to appeal as driver, so don't.


I hope you are now starting to understand how important it is to read and re-read the advice, and use it to your best advantage.