Planning restrictions are stopping us from selling our house!

moneyistooshorttomention

As it was - cynically - explained to me = the reason why Councils start slamming this sort of stuff in place is not because its students per se in the accommodation. Rather its because they are paying a student level of Council Tax = nothing then.

The way it was put to me was that Councils start getting antsy if they can see there is a large number of people living in an area, but not a correspondingly large number of Council Tax payers iyswim.

I am rather inclined to believe this.

Add in the fact that Universities and the like don't wish to build a load of posh new student blocks of housing for their students and then find that said students are often still choosing to live in "student houses" - so its possible a bit of arm-twisting might be being done on the Council in order to get them to bring these sort of restrictions in.

anselld

buglawton wrote: »

This is unbelievably strict compared to other local authorities that start at 5 or 6.

It's not. 3 sharers is the definition of HMO/ C4 use. Other authorities imposing Article 4 direction will be the same because it is a planning restriction on change of use from C3 to C4.

This is completely different from licensing considerations where the Council can impose any other arbitrary definition on properties they want to license.

dimbo61

Can you put a link to the property on rightmove please?
What road/area Fallowfield/chorlton/Withington?

moneyistooshorttomention

Just to reassure OP, I've had my Mouseprice Area Monitor of houseprices sold for my home area in this morning and was able to check the price a similar house to my last one sold for that is on the outer edge of the particular little area mine was in. It sold for very much the same sort of price as mine did (enough extra to allow for it being a "better" house, but I don't think the difference was any bigger than that) and, with being right on the far edge of that particular little area it was removed I would say from the HMO-or-otherwise effect on prices.

So, I don't think the price I got for my last house got affected much, if at all, by that.

I am still waiting with interest to see what price the house of my last next door neighbour fetched as, just as anticipated, it went on the market recently (probate house) and it actually sold surprisingly quickly for such an old-fashioned house.

princeofpounds

As it was - cynically - explained to me = the reason why Councils start slamming this sort of stuff in place is not because its students per se in the accommodation. Rather its because they are paying a student level of Council Tax = nothing then.

I don't think that is always such a significant motivation. Most council areas are quite large (at least in terms of population) and many councils will have universities and their student population still living somewhere else in their area even if they put restrictions on HMOs in a specific locality.


I think they are often engaged in a misguided attempt to socially engineer the characteristics of a neighbourhood through the blunt tool of planning permission.


The irony is that the policy is designed to 'save' the very likes of the OP when in reality it now traps them.

Add in the fact that Universities and the like don't wish to build a load of posh new student blocks of housing for their students and then find that said students are often still choosing to live in "student houses"

Apart from the old and rich college-based universities like Oxford and Cambridge and the odd small or isolated institution, universities have never been significant providers of accommodation beyond the first year. The Young Ones was invented earlier than Blair came to office for a reason.


A lot of purpose-built private student housing has been built in recent years, but it was always hard to keep pace with the rise in student numbers begun in the late 90s and ending in the 2000s.


One of the main reasons it is hard to build this stuff is, believe it or not, planning permission. Student accommodation providers like Unite spend years trying to get developments off the ground due to bureaucracy.


So you have the rather bizarre situation of councils not wanting to permit student accommodation, and yet not wanting to permit students to live in normal accommodation. As the same time as a huge rise in student numbers and growth in universities (which the councils probably support in a general sense).


It's just another example of a planning bottleneck in our society.


But to be fair, even if they had moved quickly the sheer pace of student arrivals would still have created pressure.

moneyistooshorttomention

Good points. It had never quite struck me quite so clearly - duh! - that of course the fact that lots of other people are also going to University these days (ie besides the ones actually bright enough to do so) would lead to huge increased demand for student housing (of any type) and that, in turn, would lead to these huge knock-on effects on the rest of us in our little houses nearby.

Duh! Put like that = its obvious.

anselld

princeofpounds wrote: »

I think they are often engaged in a misguided attempt to socially engineer the characteristics of a neighbourhood through the blunt tool of planning permission.
The irony is that the policy is designed to 'save' the very likes of the OP when in reality it now traps them.

Very well put.

In fact the attempted social engineering came from poltitical motivation at the top of both main parties.

Caroline Flint introduced C4 use class when she was housing minister in a misguided attempt to halt the spread of "studentification".

Grant Shaps / Michael Green initially promised to allow change of use to C4 under permitted development as part of the supposed drive to remove planning bureacracy. He latter backed down by giving Councils the power to override the decision locally under Article 4 directive. ( ie he might as well not have bothered)

No good has come from either housing ministers' attempts to socially engineer the market but it seems to have done no harm to their respective careers.

http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=SN05414

elvenmunky

Thanks for the replies it has been very informational!

Yes living in this area is an absolute nightmarre. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. Over the years I have made so many noise disturbance comaplints to the council, maybe even in the hundreds and thats no exaggeration! There is not one day that goes by where I can hear loud music coming from one of the houses. I suppose this what happens when you get spoilt teenagers living in temporary residence.

We feel really hard done by as we cannot sell the house at all and we have dropped the price considerably but still there has been zero interest unless there is planning permission. But if this licence is not transferable then why do they ask?

I just don't know what do! I could maybe formulate a formal letter to the council expressing my concerns but I will believe that it will be a fruitless attempt,

I have mistakenly made this post on this profile when I should have made
it on another anyway here is the link to my property

http://www.bridgfords.co.uk/buy/property/3-bedroom-end-of-terrace-house-in-manchester,m14-ref-1944875/#


If you were in my shoes what would you do?

buglawton

Construct a good letter to your Councillor and MP. Use http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ as your tool.

stator

elvenmunky wrote: »

Thanks for the replies it has been very informational!

Yes living in this area is an absolute nightmarre. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. Over the years I have made so many noise disturbance comaplints to the council, maybe even in the hundreds and thats no exaggeration! There is not one day that goes by where I can hear loud music coming from one of the houses. I suppose this what happens when you get spoilt teenagers living in temporary residence.

We feel really hard done by as we cannot sell the house at all and we have dropped the price considerably but still there has been zero interest unless there is planning permission. But if this licence is not transferable then why do they ask?

I just don't know what do! I could maybe formulate a formal letter to the council expressing my concerns but I will believe that it will be a fruitless attempt,

I have mistakenly made this post on this profile when I should have made
it on another anyway here is the link to my property

http://www.bridgfords.co.uk/buy/property/3-bedroom-end-of-terrace-house-in-manchester,m14-ref-1944875/#


If you were in my shoes what would you do?

It may not be transferrable but it would certainly be a good indication if the new LL would be able to get HMO approval after they buy it. It would make the risk of refusal less likely and so more acceptable to a buyer.

Have you investigate any possibility you could let the house out instead?