Planning restrictions are stopping us from selling our house!

elvenmunky

So we put the house on the market after living here for a number of years. The street has been taken over by landlords and now it is a student ghetto. We are one of the few families that are left.

We have had about 6/7 viewings and which involved parents of students and landlords and the one question that they ask is 'has this property got planning permission?'.

Now Manchester council has restricted the planning permission for multi occupancy housing for this area due to recent rules and regulations (Article 4). So basically we feel as though we are stuck here due to not having planning permission.

I haven't applied for it yet and I actually don't even know where to start! I had a look at the form and it looks so complicated. I was wondering if anyone could give me any suggestions?

ReadingTim

Your options are either to sell the place as it (ie a family house), or do work (or apply for permission to do work) which may make the place more attractive to a certain sort of buyer.

There's no point in you applying for an HMO licence as it's not required in its current state as a family home, and anyway, the licences aren't transferable on sale. However, you could investigate any additional work which might be required should the new owners wish to apply for a licence. You don't necessarily have to do them, but having an idea of what's required and the likely cost might be useful for the landlord type of buyer.

However, if you're sure that the council aren't granting any more licences in your area, I'd keep quiet - I'd say that you haven't investigated it being an HMO as it's currently a family house, and leave it up to the buyer to find out for themselves whether it's possible to get it licensed.

Unfortunately, if the council aren't granting any more licenses, your market has greatly reduced and you might have to take a hit on the sale price to move. Sadly, unless council policy changes, there's also little you can do about it - the time to 'get out' of the 'student ghetto' has come and gone...

princeofpounds

The only other option would be to get more creative; apply to split it into separate flats which would not require an HMO license etc. But you'd probably find that the cost and hassle of such things is in excess of the discount you might need to allow to get people interested in your place.

moneyistooshorttomention

The way it worked out in my last area was that, when HMO restrictions came in, the position (as far as I could work it out) was that a certain number of unrelated "households" could live in a home that was big enough for that number of people IF one of them was the home-owner and the rest were lodgers as far as I recall the position.

That meant my last house had the following available options when I sold it:

- get bought by a normal household (eg a family)
OR
- get bought by a single individual to be their home and they intended to take in however many lodgers they decided they would


but it couldn't be bought as an HMO (ie everyone living in that house being different "households" not related to each other)
iyswim.

This may vary from Council to Council - I don't know?? but I would imagine is a pretty standard position on this.

That meant I knew I was targeting the above 2 categories of people (ie either a family or a single individual intending to take in lodgers to start with). It got bought by a family.

I'm presuming your house is a starter house? Because that might make a difference, dependant on whether its a starter, an "intermediate" or a "forever home"?

My sympathies and hope you find a way through this.

I was rather nervous when it came to selling my last house because of precisely these considerations and my EA genuinely was an ethical EA and so wouldn't have hidden the fact if I had wanted him to do so (which I just had to swear visibly about, but didn't ask him to hide it anyway...). It was what it was (and I didn't know who I would like to have cheerfully strangled first - those investors who had bought into the area or the Council) and I suspect it did reduce the number of available buyers for my place, but I did manage to sell it and without having to slash the price to do so.

eddddy

Hi elvenmunky

As you're probably aware, this isn't an HMO licensing issue, it's a planning issue.

Manchester CC talk about it here: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200074/planning/4847/article_4_direction

And unfortunately for you, they say:

In general we would be unlikely to let you change your property into a HMO if there are a lot of other shared houses nearby.

In general, before applying for any type of planning permission, it's best to talk to the council planning department first.

Normally, they will indicate the chances of success, and explain the application process etc.

If it were me, I would also prepare a case to discuss with the planners, and include with my application, along these lines:

- The property has been on the market for x months at £X (this is a fair asking price because...)
- There has been zero interest from family owner occupiers
- The only interest is from BTL investors
- Therefore the property does not appear to be viable as a family home

anselld

I would think your problem is that there is an Article 4 direction in place meaning that change of use from C3 to C4 requires planning permission.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/200074/planning/4847/article_4_direction_changing_the_use_of_your_property

The good news is the you can apply for free.

That bad news is that you might not get it depending on the Council's adopted strategy for allowing new C4 use.

You are right that this has nothing to do with modifications to the property, etc. It is purely a planning issue invented by the Council.

Unfortunately in most areas where this applies they are attempting to shut the door after the horse has bolted and instead of de-studentifying areas they are just creating market backstpots where non-C4 properties cannot be sold.

So research the policy towards C4 use where you are and if you think you can get it then apply and sell on to a LL.

WestonDave

Agree with previous posts - Article 4 restrictions on HMO's are an attempt (often too late) to stop areas becoming student ghettos - the idea being that no further permissions will be granted. The house can still be sold but you need to bear in mind that it is worth what a family house surrounded by a load of "noisy messy students" is worth not the far higher price that it would be worth as an investment cash cow with a load of students crammed in.


That said we had one go through for C4 use in a street with an article 4 restriction on it on the grounds that the owner hadn't been able to sell it. The difference on this one was that it had previously been a HMO and had been converted back to a family home for the then owner. The planning officers recommended refusal but the councillors on the committee let it pass.

getmore4less

There was someone on here looking for a place in Nots. for their student kid, they were going to have lodgers to get round the planning issues for HMO.


edit: found it
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5198723


woops you are Manchester

stator

If you apply for permission to turn your house into a HMO and get refused, can you force the council to buy your property, claiming it's unsaleable without it? A "Purchase Notice"?

agrinnall

It sounds like this is one of the situations as WestonDave says that it's being done too late, as the areas is already a student ghetto, in which case restricting further applications is bolting the stable door long after the horse has bolted. All it's doing is penalising the few remaining non-student-house owners such as the OP. Sometimes the authorities should simply accept the reality of what is happening rather than hoping they can achieve something that has become unlikely if not impossible.

buglawton

From Manchester council's website:
"a small HMO (is)...
• a house lived in by three or more but fewer than seven people as a House in Multiple Occupation (HMO)"

So 3 students sharing is not even allowed!

This is unbelievably strict compared to other local authorities that start at 5 or 6.
The neighbouring houses will have been converted for 6-8 students hence the area's reputation.
The council could indeed be putting the mockers on a good sale price, appeal?