Speeding ticket-offence 0n 17/2/15-NIP dated 18/3/15-received 20/3??

SuperAllyB

Johno100 wrote: »

Hope you've remembered to polish your halo this morning.

I don't have a halo. I was simply pointing out the cheapest (most MSE) way to avoid problems with traffic cameras.

HO87

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

How are they going to change the date on the OPs letter?

It's possible the slip rule could come into play but only if the offence date was 17/03/15. However as the nip is a fundamental part of the prosecution it isn't a simple mistake and would possibly prove fatal to their prosecution.

Given the facts the OP has I'd run with their letter and let them prove when they posted it. There evidence so far suggests they have sat on it for a month.

If it's a February offence the nip is too late.

OP were you at the offence location on 17/03/15?

For reasons set out above the NIP may be too late but the implication in their own documentation is that this may not be the first NIP in the sequence. Only the first NIP is bound by the 14-day rule.

The slip rule is unlikely to be applied in circumstances where it would seriously disadvantage the defendant - as this would. If the NIP is out-of-time, thus allowing the OP to be able to rebut the presumption of service (hardly necessary given the date it bears), then that would be fatal to a prosecution - subject to there being no other NIP in the sequence. However, finding the envelope would be very useful.

I would suggest that the question the OP should focus on is whether he was at the location and at the time alleged on 17 February - which, after all, is the question asked. If he wasn't then a new ball game begins.

skiboy1

Hi-drove VERY carefully through that area-could not see ANY cameras-must have been mobile? To clarify-I was driving on the 17/2-picture & car is deffo me lol (!). As stated-the 'online' NIP is EXACTLY the same as the paper NIP-all codes/pins SAME. Only the date is wrong on the paper one-18/3 not 18/2 as shown online!

So from what you guys are saying obviously I'll still send my driver details for the disputed one (& obviously for the one served genuinely for the offence on 10/3 (will opt for advisory driving course) to arrive within 28 days of the date on the letter (need to wait for next payday) by recorded/special delivery-disputed one with a template letter quoting the 14 day rule (after all it IS genuine-1 month 4 days before I was aware of the offence) & the other reply opting for the driving course.

Still do not understand what 'new driver nominated on 19/3' means-no-one else drives it apart from me & they have correct DVLA details?

Re: envelope-still have it-but a generic '1st class post' logo-no date at all.

HO87

DO NOT REPLY TO THE NIP YET

Your use of the words "letter dated" and "offence dates" is slightly confusing and it is important that things are clear. In terms of the requirement that has been served on you (ignore the online version for now - that is not the legal document) what date does it give as the offence date (not what we might think is the date) - that is the crucial date in terms of what you will need to do next.

In your original post you specified the offence date as 17 February and the date on the letter as 18 March. However, you now appear to be saying that the offence date is 18 February but that you were driving on 17 February? Can you clarify?

Whatever the upshot is for now the police have clearly fouled up with regard to the dates. In that respect it would seem that there is a fundamental error in the NIP that could see it, and any offence to which it relates, founder.

It is therefore important that you do not reply to the NIP until 2 April. By leaving your response until that time the possibility of the police serving a corrected NIP within the statutory limit will be eliminated - whether the actual date of the offence was 17/18 February or 17/18 March. That should seen an end to the matter.

I would also suggest that you do not in any way disclose information on the open forum that might allow you to be identified or that of the police force involved.

Spicy_McHaggis

HO87 wrote: »

DO NOT REPLY TO THE NIP YET

Your use of the words "letter dated" and "offence dates" is slightly confusing and it is important that things are clear. In terms of the requirement that has been served on you (ignore the online version for now - that is not the legal document) what date does it give as the offence date (not what we might think is the date) - that is the crucial date in terms of what you will need to do next.

In your original post you specified the offence date as 17 February and the date on the letter as 18 March. However, you now appear to be saying that the offence date is 18 February but that you were driving on 17 February? Can you clarify?

Whatever the upshot is for now the police have clearly fouled up with regard to the dates. In that respect it would seem that there is a fundamental error in the NIP that could see it, and any offence to which it relates, founder.

It is therefore important that you do not reply to the NIP until 2 April. By leaving your response until that time the possibility of the police serving a corrected NIP within the statutory limit will be eliminated - whether the actual date of the offence was 17/18 February or 17/18 March. That should seen an end to the matter.

I would also suggest that you do not in any way disclose information on the open forum that might allow you to be identified or that of the police force involved.

It's not hard to work out its West Yorkshire.

HO87

Why not draw more attention to it?

skiboy1

Offence date-17/2/15(as on pictures on local authority site)-NIP date-18/3/15-date letter sent & showing on hard copy letter. Sorry-posted wrong date yesterday-offence date is 17/2.

CAn anyone clarify what the what 'new driver nominated on 19/3' means...still confused on that. Thanks SO MUCH for the help so far-this is such a great forum!

Spicy_McHaggis

If the offence date is the 17/02/15 and the photos show this and this is your first comunication. You own the vehicle and are the registered keeper and your V5 is from before the offence date.
The return the form confirming you were the driver at the time of the offence. Wait until you recieve further comunication and then write informing them of their error.

HO87

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

If the offence date is the 17/02/15 and the photos show this and this is your first comunication. You own the vehicle and are the registered keeper and your V5 is from before the offence date.
The return the form confirming you were the driver at the time of the offence. Wait until you recieve further comunication and then write informing them of their error.

In order to deal with the possibility that the offence date was actually 17 March which we cannot eliminate the OP should delay replying until after the 2 April as set out above. If the offence date was actually the 17 March then to respond earlier could allow the police to issue a revised NIP and serve it in time. By delaying his reply until after that date the OP loses nothing but will be able to then deal more effectively with the out-of-time issue regardless of whether the offence occurred in February or more recently.

I would not advise that the OP waits until "further contact" as this is likely to be a conditional offer but to approach the issue directly with a letter attached to the completed s.172 response form pointing out that it appears that the NIP had been served out-of-time. A conditional offer moves the case a further step up the prosecution ladder and to decline it - which is how any response other than an unequivocal acceptance may well be viewed - could well complicate matters. A declined COFP inevitably leads to a summons so to pull on the reins before that stage is reached has to be preferable.

Spicy_McHaggis

HO87 wrote: »

In order to deal with the possibility that the offence date was actually 17 March which we cannot eliminate the OP should delay replying until after the 2 April as set out above. If the offence date was actually the 17 March then to respond earlier could allow the police to issue a revised NIP and serve it in time. By delaying his reply until after that date the OP loses nothing but will be able to then deal more effectively with the out-of-time issue regardless of whether the offence occurred in February or more recently.

I would not advise that the OP waits until "further contact" as this is likely to be a conditional offer but to approach the issue directly with a letter attached to the completed s.172 response form pointing out that it appears that the NIP had been served out-of-time. A conditional offer moves the case a further step up the prosecution ladder and to decline it - which is how any response other than an unequivocal acceptance may well be viewed - could well complicate matters. A declined COFP inevitably leads to a summons so to pull on the reins before that stage is reached has to be preferable.

And if the camera photos are time stamped and dated 17/02/15, the is no evidence the offence took place on 17/03/15 so any prosecution would fail.