NHS Penalty Charge Notice received

Londonsu

cosmicgirl8 wrote: »

I am completely with you on this. Why would the government decide that two identically named benefits were not BOTH entitling claimants to free treatment unless it was to deliberately claim more revenue in the form of penalty charges? I was misled by a receptionist; i was NOT told to read the form. In fact I went in with the INTENTION of paying as I had only been made unemployed two days' prior. I was still in a state of shock and as I was handed the form to sign, the stupid receptionist was TALKING to me about when I could make my next appointment so not only did she mislead me, she distracted me also. I am now at the stage of taking this to the ombudsman. It is a disgrace especially when there are elderly people getting confused and caught out and many people who do not have English as their first language.

They are not identically named surely you must now the difference between contribution based IE you have contributed and are entitled and income based where you would have had to give the DWP details of your income/household income to be able to claim it, the reason for the NHS not giving free prescriptions /dental work for contribution based is that it hasn't been means tested by another agency which is why they have their own means tested scheme called the low income scheme.


Why does an adult need to be TOLD to read the back of a form when it clearly tells you to read it, don't you look at things you have signed would you sign an insurance policy, a loan agreement an employment contract etc without bothering to read it
tp://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/DentalServices/A4_PR_V2.pdf

What are you going to complain to the ombudsman about that you didn't bother to read a document? that you signed something that told you you could be fined if you claimed incorrectly and you have now been fined and as for the fines being more revenue, that's not really true, its more a case of the NHS needing to protect its revenue, , haven't you been reading the press lately are you not aware of the crisis within the NHS, the lack of money the stretched resources how much more money can be saved by people paying what they have to in the first place without the additional expense of investigation by the NHSBSA

As for the elderly and people who have ESL if someone has a sufficient grasp of the English language to claim a benefit then they should be able to understand the restrictions of those benefits or the agencies that help them claim should be telling them what they will and wont get


I help older people with benefits one of the ways I help them them with is claiming dental treatment under the low income scheme because they are usually aware they don't get free treatment unless they are on the means tested pension credit I don't know any pensioner who has been fined for incorrectly claiming free treatment, in fact the opposite is often true pensioners not realising their income is low enough for PC so they haven't claimed it and pay for their treatment

Sorry I think a cohort of dental receptionists colluding with each other to see how many people they can get fined is ludicrous even the 'stupid' ones wont be doing that

Of course you could just wind your neck in stop blaming everyone else and threatening to 'take it further' and appeal the fine

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/DentalServices/Documents/DentalServices/Appeals_Process_Patient_View-Final-02032015.pdf

Ames

I don't think receptionists are colluding but based on threads on here a lot are giving bad advice, probably because their job isn't to be a benefits expert but they want to help. I do think that anyone caught out should be politely explaining the rules to the person who gave the wrong information. Even better would be a round robin from the NHS to dentist surgeries and pharmacies explaining the rules to try and reduce the problem.

Tommo1980

Perhaps the responsibility should be on the surgery to check entitlement.

Staff would soon get the appropriate training if it was likely to cost the business money by delivering 'free' treatment to those who weren't entitled.

Tom

Londonsu

Ames wrote: »

I don't think receptionists are colluding but based on threads on here a lot are giving bad advice, probably because their job isn't to be a benefits expert but they want to help. I do think that anyone caught out should be politely explaining the rules to the person who gave the wrong information. Even better would be a round robin from the NHS to dentist surgeries and pharmacies explaining the rules to try and reduce the problem.

Tommo1980 wrote: »

Perhaps the responsibility should be on the surgery to check entitlement.

Staff would soon get the appropriate training if it was likely to cost the business money by delivering 'free' treatment to those who weren't entitled.

Tom

Pharmacists do have the appropriate training, but pharmacists also have a duty of care towards NHS patients much like GPs, they cant refuse to dispense medication that could cause someone harm or even the risk of death if they didn't get their medication, you will actually find that they will be following their own rules and that is to dispense without question but to tick the evidence not seen part of the prescription and let the NHSBSA people do the chasing that is what it was set up to do not just to fine people but to ensure that sick people are not turned away because they don't have the correct info with them at the time


Pharmacies also have a duty of care towards their employees they need to ensure that frontline staff are not put into the position of having to refuse medication to distressed, sick people and also to protect them from angry, even violent people.


Dentist will have the same duty of care towards both patients and staff .


However it does not negate the fact that every time you sign the back of the prescription or dental form you are signing that the information is correct, you have a legitimate claim and that you could be fined if you are not entitled to treatment/prescriptions therefore its your responsibility to ensure you are entitled.


I would hazard a guess that if more people are being 'caught out' its because the NHS is now being more proactive in protecting its revenue and surely that's what we all want at the end of the day isn't it?

TELLIT01

Tommo1980 wrote: »

Perhaps the responsibility should be on the surgery to check entitlement.

Staff would soon get the appropriate training if it was likely to cost the business money by delivering 'free' treatment to those who weren't entitled.

Tom

Absolutely not. Even with training, staff would not have access to all the documentation provided to the benefit claimant. Responsibility is with the claimant and should remain there.
The best things GP surgeries, dentists etc can do is to put up signs stating that they cannot advise on elegibility for free prescriptions / treatment.

dippy3103

dippy3103 wrote: »

I also am disabled (with a disabled child) and work full time.. Being disabled and being able to work are not mutually exclusive.

Another disabled person that works here...

Ames

Londonsu wrote: »

Pharmacists do have the appropriate training, but pharmacists also have a duty of care towards NHS patients much like GPs, they cant refuse to dispense medication that could cause someone harm or even the risk of death if they didn't get their medication, you will actually find that they will be following their own rules and that is to dispense without question but to tick the evidence not seen part of the prescription and let the NHSBSA people do the chasing that is what it was set up to do not just to fine people but to ensure that sick people are not turned away because they don't have the correct info with them at the time


Pharmacies also have a duty of care towards their employees they need to ensure that frontline staff are not put into the position of having to refuse medication to distressed, sick people and also to protect them from angry, even violent people.


Dentist will have the same duty of care towards both patients and staff .


However it does not negate the fact that every time you sign the back of the prescription or dental form you are signing that the information is correct, you have a legitimate claim and that you could be fined if you are not entitled to treatment/prescriptions therefore its your responsibility to ensure you are entitled.


I would hazard a guess that if more people are being 'caught out' its because the NHS is now being more proactive in protecting its revenue and surely that's what we all want at the end of the day isn't it?

I agree that the NHS should check when people claim an exemption, and I'm not talking about pharmacists being held responsible. But if the pharmacist says to someone 'are you on tax credits, then tick here' then they should be told they're giving out misleading information.

I think sometimes, in an effort to be helpful, they accidentally give out false information. If nobody says 'that's wrong' then they'll carry on doing it.

For instance, I always show my exemption card. The pharmacist told me once I didn't need to because 'it's obvious' from the medication they were giving me I'm exempt. But, all they know from the medication is that I'm entitled to an exemption card, not that I actually have one. If they say to everyone on Metformin 'oh, you're exempt' then they could be leading people into ticking the wrong box.

It's a subtle difference, but one which could lead to people being fined.

Obviously the patient needs to check what they're signing, and ultimately responsibility is with them.

cosmicgirl8

I find it unbelievable and rather sad that some people on this forum feel the need to be so caustic in their judgement of what they read. Clearly you have never been made suddenly unemployed or else you would empathise with the complete sledgehammer effect it has upon someone. When I claimed JSA I was not aware that there were two JSAs and had not received any paperwork in the post at that point. During the claim for JSA you are asked many questions but no mention is made of any associated entitlements or otherwise which would be helpful. Indeed, when I eventually received my paperwork, one page referred to my "income based" JSA which was actually WRONG! During subsequent discussions with my local health board I was actually told by the chief executive that he sees cases "all the time" of elderly people especially getting caught out. Also, come on! Can you really say hand on heart that you read every single thing you sign to the last letter? I think not; if you do then you are exceptional. As I said, I was about to pay with my debit card when the receptionist led me down the path of signing this form whilst asking me to book in for my next appointment. She could have told me that it might be best to pay now and reclaim later (if eligible). It was only £13.50 after all. She even marked where (in her opinion) I needed to sign! That to me signalled that I didn't need to look further or read any other parts! In my opinion, dentists profit handsomely from NHS patients (sometimes fraudulently) therefore they should accept some responsibility in what they say to patients. No rights without responsibilities.

bspm

cosmicgirl8 wrote: »

I find it unbelievable and rather sad that some people on this forum feel the need to be so caustic in their judgement of what they read. Clearly you have never been made suddenly unemployed or else you would empathise with the complete sledgehammer effect it has upon someone. When I claimed JSA I was not aware that there were two JSAs and had not received any paperwork in the post at that point. During the claim for JSA you are asked many questions but no mention is made of any associated entitlements or otherwise which would be helpful. Indeed, when I eventually received my paperwork, one page referred to my "income based" JSA which was actually WRONG! During subsequent discussions with my local health board I was actually told by the chief executive that he sees cases "all the time" of elderly people especially getting caught out. Also, come on! Can you really say hand on heart that you read every single thing you sign to the last letter? I think not; if you do then you are exceptional. As I said, I was about to pay with my debit card when the receptionist led me down the path of signing this form whilst asking me to book in for my next appointment. She could have told me that it might be best to pay now and reclaim later (if eligible). It was only £13.50 after all. She even marked where (in her opinion) I needed to sign! That to me signalled that I didn't need to look further or read any other parts! In my opinion, dentists profit handsomely from NHS patients (sometimes fraudulently) therefore they should accept some responsibility in what they say to patients. No rights without responsibilities.

Totally agree with you on every word.

Unlike some on here you do not possess a Degree in Benefits, it is a minefield and, when new to it, very confusing.

I too was caught out with the dentist charge, we have used the same dentist and receptionist since 1985, she virtually told me to sign the back too, like you say when someone is telling you that you do not have to pay why would you argue the point!

I received a penalty notice for the the cost of treatment and a £100 fine, I contacted my dentist first who was mortified I had received this and was advised to call whoever had issued the fine (cant remember now) and see if it could be waived, my dentist said that if it was not waived then they would pay the fine, it was waived.

Total misunderstanding caused by the receptionist not knowing the difference between IB and CB benefits as well as me not knowing either. I do not believe that most people stand and read an entire form of regulations either, also when I attended the dentist I did not even know which benefit I was in receipt of.

Like I said, maybe a Degree in Benefits would help lol !

Trumped_Up

Yes, the penalty fines are often waived.