Excel at Booths Salford Quays – £100 fine for overstay

m-ga

Hi,

I've read through the newbie threads and recommended procedures:

[links removed as first post]

However, my case has the complication that I did purchase a ticket. I then overstayed. I am concerned that the car park operator will make a case that I was aware of the charges, since I purchased a ticket in the first place.

Here is a bit more information. I parked at 7:45pm at the Booths supermarket car park in Salford Quays. The car park was nearly deserted – maybe three other cars in it. It is right next to a Booths supermarket. I noticed a machine with some text on it (in very small print) and some very high hourly charges (£3/hr or so) displayed a little more prominently. However, the first hour would be refunded by the supermarket. So, I purchased a ticket for one hour, and displayed it in the windscreen.

I got back to the car a little after 9pm. There was a parking ticket attached to the windscreen. I went into Booths and did some shopping (still have the receipt), reclaiming the cost of the ticket I had purchased. I then drove back home. I did nothing about the ticket.

Today (a little over a month later) I received a demand for £100 from Excel parking, citing the contravention "Parked after the expiry of time in a pay & display car park".

I'm not sure what to do next. The £100 charge is clearly too high, especially since the car park was empty (and I am certain would remain so until the next morning). It's hardly as if I'm depriving them of income, especially since they got some money from Booths.

Despite this, I do not expect the car park operator to be sympathetic. If this case ended up in court, they'd make a case that I must have been aware of the fees to have purchased a ticket in the first place. I don't fancy countering this. Is there anything I can do now to stop the progression of the case?

[some further background: when I arrived, I was late for a meeting and had very little change on me, so was a little panicky. There's a Booths car park in Knutsford, where I live, which is operated by the council and has a much more reasonable 40p/hr charge, which is also refundable by the supermarket. However, this ceases to take effect after 6pm –!the council actually want visitors to park there in the evening, once all the commuters have gone home. I wasn't certain if this Salford Quays car park had the same deal. If so, I wouldn't have needed a ticket in the first place, but it didn't really matter since Booths would pick up the tab anyway. It furthermore seems absurd to me for Salford Quays to be charging any parking fees in the evening, as no-one ever goes there at that time and they'd be better off doing more to attract visitors. I don't expect any of this will matter much to Excel Parking though. Their £100 fee is outrageous].

tykesi

Your situation is no different to any other, follow the steps in the Newbies thread.

trisontana

This car park is virtually next door to the BBC studios. Would't it be nice if VCS gave some of their fake fines to couple of BBC journalists so they could then do a piece about the murky world of PPCs?

m-ga

Yes, it is right next to the BBC. I wonder if they make Watchdog in those studios?

The bit of the form letter I'm worried about is "As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen". This is a tough sell, as a ticket was purchased. Shall I simply leave it in anyway?

BlackSpangle

m-ga wrote: »

The bit of the form letter I'm worried about is "As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen". This is a tough sell, as a ticket was purchased. Shall I simply leave it in anyway?

You can certainly change this to "As keeper, I have since visited the site, and ascertained that the wording of the signage is so confusing as to render it inadequate to form a contract between Excel and any driver".

Excel will reject the challenge anyway, and since they are part of the IPC, so will their "I"AS. But you're not writing the challenge for those clowns - but for a potential court later on, to prove that you've been reasonable, and they haven't.

The_Deep

If this case ended up in court, they'd make a case that I must have been aware of the fees to have purchased a ticket in the first place.

No they probably try to claim that your dastardly deed cost them £100.

Umkomaas

trisontana wrote: »

This car park is virtually next door to the BBC studios. Would't it be nice if VCS gave some of their fake fines to couple of BBC journalists so they could then do a piece about the murky world of PPCs?

Perhaps a sideways move for Clarkson? Nice little project for him, in line with his motoring interests? From fast cars to parked cars!

Fracas-free, unless he bumps into owd Trev and 'N Martin'!

m-ga

Here's what Excel have written back to me:

Dear (redacted)

We refer to your correspondence received on (redacted) in connection with the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

Please note that we are proceeding on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question unless you are able to prove the contrary.

The Terms and Conditions of parking at the Booths Supermarket Car Park were displayed on numerous Information Boards situated throughout the area.

As per the statement made by our Parking Attendant your vehicle was parked after the expiry of time on a Pay & Display ticket. Specifically, he stated, “Parked after expiry of paid time”. When using Pay and Display parking facilities, it is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that they return to their vehicle before the expiry time of their ticket.

We must advise you that the expiry time on your ticket was clearly displayed on the front of the ticket Motorists should ensure that they check the expiry time on the Pay & Display ticket before leaving their vehicle. It is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that they are able to return to their vehicle before the stated time, or else to purchase more time if necessary. A helpline number is indicated on the ticket machines should they fail to function as expected. Unfortunately on this occasion you did not use this helpline, and as such provision could not be made for you.

We note your comments in relation to the amount of our PCN charges and we can confirm that they represent a sum for liquidated and ascertained damages in respect of breach of the parking contract. Those charges have been calculated in advance and were clearly set out on the signage. When a motorist parks in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking, a loss is incurred by us as incorrect parking prevents the efficient management of the car park. If we are unable to regulate the car park our clients would not require our services and the company would cease to exist. It is therefore commercially justifiable that the operator seeks to enforce its terms and conditions.

Furthermore, we would contend that it is too late for you now to indicate that you are unhappy with the parking charge - this should have been done at the time of accepting the parking contract. Should you take up your option to appeal to the Independent Adjudication Service (IAS), we will rigorously defend our position on the level of the PCN charge. We would also contend that in any such appeal to the IAS you should set out your reasons, along with relevant supporting evidence as to why the charge is not appropriate.

We note your allegation that our Notice is not compliant with the Protection Of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012. However, we have not cited PoFA 2012 nor stated that you are liable for the Parking Charge as the vehicle keeper . We are suggesting you are liable for the Parking Charge on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question unless evidence to the contrary is provided.

In response to the issue you have raised with regards to charging money for your correspondence, we do not accept this and no amount shall be paid to you. We are writing to obtain due payment for the above Parking Charge Notice, and are not entering into a new contract with you.

When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking . It is clear that the terms of parking stated that a valid Pay and Display ticket must be displayed, or the motorist would face liability for a parking charge. We would note that you had the opportunity to leave the car park if you could not comply with the terms of parking.

We are satisfied that the Parking Charge Notice has been issued correctly, and that sufficient attention was brought to the driver with regards to the Terms and Conditions enforced . In light of the aforementioned , your appeal (representations) is rejected . We will not accept any further appeals.

What you should do next – Either:

1. Pay the Parking Charge . In order to settle the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, the payment of £100 .00 is to be received within our office by the 28 April 2015 . Payments can be made on line at excelparking.co.uk/payments by following the links for “PCN Payment”, or over the phone by using a valid credit or debit card. Alternatively , you can pay by cheque or postal order through the post made payable to Excel Parking Services Ltd. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that payment is received within our offices by the date specified above.

OR:

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS). In order to appeal , the IAS will need the following information (which is contained in the subject header of this letter).

Notice Serial No:
Vehicle Registration Mark:
Site No.:
Date of PCN Issued:

Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter.

Please visit theias.org for full details on how to submit an appeal online.

it is important you note that if you wish to appeal to the IAS, the discount offer will no longer apply and the full amount of the Parking Charge will be pursued should your appeal be rejected by the IAS.

Please note that further costs may be incurred should it be necessary for us to subsequently recover any outstanding charge using debt recovery and/or court action.

Yours sincerely


(redacted)
On behalf of the Senior Manager
Central Payments Office.

m-ga

Not really sure what to write back.

The weakest part of their letter seems to be "When a motorist parks in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking, a loss is incurred by us as incorrect parking prevents the efficient management of the car park". This can't reasonably be £100 though – not on an empty car park at 8pm.

Suggestions? All I've sent them so far is the form letter as in the newbies thread. I guess I'm going to have to send the IAS appeal letter at this point. It might also be worth writing to Booths Supermarket, and seeing if they can do anything.

m-ga

I'm getting a bit panicky on this one! Have done nothing for a month. Need to write to them ASAP, I think. Am writing to Booths today.

Ralph-y

The IPC have the worst appeals service in the know galaxy ....... the chances of winning are small.

Opinion is a bit divided on how to deal with them ..... my suggestion is to do the appeals , for several reasons

one being if IF it gets to court then you will be shown as being reasonable

a second is it builds up the case against them .... come judgment day!

Read search the forum for the people who have won appeals with the kangaroo court .... to see if you think you could do similar



do your homework and then decide what your action should be



Your best bet will be getting Booth's to cancel it .... so speak to the manager and or head office.


Ralph:cool: