FTB buying a Victorian end-terrace in need of tlc - homebuyer's report or full survey

pichon

Hello,

I would appreciate it very much if someone could offer their insight into our concerns.

My husband and I are buying a Victorian end-terrace property that needs some work. Unfortunately, it had 60s-70s makeover and it is the ugliest house in a nice street. All the other houses are red-brick with sash windows, but this one is brown/grey pebble dashed and the windows were removed (two were blocked out) and replaced with completely different windows to the rest of the street.

The house had visible damp signs and decor was outdated (textured wall and ceiling!!) but seemed mostly cosmetic. We took a builder in our second viewing to investigate damp patches. After checking with a meter (?) he said the visible signs were just condensation but the real damp is in the party wall in the kitchen behind the kitchen units (he managed to get a reading through the internal gap in the cupboard).

When we move in, we'd like to do a side return extension, possibly move the downstairs bathroom upstairs, and do a loft conversion. My husband doesn't want to add further expense to what is already a big outgoing and want to go for a homebuyer's report. At the end of the day, the house itself has no other visible issues rather than the damp, and we already got a builder's quote on that issue. It's not a 300-year-old cottage so he doesn't believe a late 19th century house in a decent condition requires a full survey. I would rather get a a full building survey, mainly because I suppose doing all these work would require some sort of detailed survey work eventually.

Am I completely mistaken in this? Does a building survey for house purchase serve no purpose when it comes to planning extensions and loft conversion? Do you need to get a separate survey done anyway when you carry out the extension and renovation?

Sorry if I sound completely ignorant or clueless but we really are on this front and don't know who to ask. We are also moving to a completely new town without any friend and local knowledge... Comments or suggestions would be welcome. Thank you.

Doozergirl

The renovation of a Victorian house is never just cosmetic! Your husband may sniff that it isn't timber framed but in many ways a timber frame is more predicatable and built for purpose. If the house hasn't been updated since the 70s, you're in for a world of surprises. Electrics and plastering spring to mind immediately.

As a FTB I would certainly go for a full building survey. It will pay for itself.

You won't need another survey for an extension. An architect will measure out for drawings and design to current building regs.

I presume with talk of side returns and loft conversions that we are in an afluent area where those things will actually add more value than they cost?

Doozergirl

Did your 'builder' even say what was causing the condensation and the 'real damp'? What was his recommendation?

pichon

Doozergirl wrote: »

Did your 'builder' even say what was causing the condensation and the 'real damp'? What was his recommendation?

The estate agent said the previous tenants (it's been a rental property by the current owners) had furniture all along the wall in question as the house was left empty for some time it has caused condensation and mould. We were a bit sceptical so took the damp proof person (he is a damp specialist. I sent photos to a general builder I found online (again no local knowledge) and he said it looked too serious so I should talk to a damp specialist. He got no moisture readings on the wall and went out to check exterior but found no problem. Upstairs he found some box called Concure unit that is supposed to manage condensation. If the house is occupied and the unit is running again, he said condensation should be solved. He gave us a quote on replacing the unit in case it doesn't work.

Regarding the party wall in the kitchen he used the term "rising damp" but because of the kitchen units he can't say for sure how much of the area is affected so he gave us two quotes, just the area he was able to get readings of and the estimate of treating the entire wall.

Doozergirl

First of all, your damp guy sells damp treating products.

If you are renovating a property then you have the opportunity to get rid of the problems, not treat symptoms. You have a house with solid walls. By lining the walls with insulated plasterboard you will remove the potential for condensation. If younare planning tonreplace windows, then ensure they have trickle vents. Open up blocked fireplaces too for better airflow.

Damp behind the kitchen units wothout even looking cannot be diagnosed correctly. I would suggest that first of all, one looks for leaks, given that it a water area in the house. Look outside as well for where the rainwater is going - I know you said it was party wall but is near an external wall at all, or chimney breast?

If you have a full survey and do it separately to your mortgage
valuation, you can get a personal service. highlight the issues you already know about and they can investigate and recommend for you.

The two experts you have had in don't appear to be anything close. Youust look for cause and genuine solution, not treatment.

AdrianC

A 100-150yo place, with known questionable "improvements", known damp issues. party wall obligations and a tight short-term budget? And you're considering skimping on the survey?

Yeh, good luck with that.

Pete9501

Doozergirl wrote: »

Open up blocked fireplaces too for better airflow.

Damp behind the kitchen units wothout even looking cannot be diagnosed correctly. I would suggest that first of all, one looks for leaks, given that it a water area in the house. Look outside as well for where the rainwater is going - I know you said it was party wall but is near an external wall at all, or chimney breast?

This :T

That house was built with drafty windows and open fire places and it worked. Replace carefully and I bet half the problems go away. We are jut opening up our fireplaces now, first one has a wood burner in and a gas fire will probably go it the second.

As for surveys, we had a full buildings survey on a 1930s house. Northing major turned up but the surveyor did explain why there is a gentle slope int he kitchen floor and a few other points of interest. That fact that he found nothing major was a relief. If he had then we would have known from the outset what we were dealing with.

Good luck with the house and don't try to do it all at once.

Jhoney_2

There's no way in the world that I would go ahead without a Full structural Survey. Just because nothing else is visable, does not mean there is nothing wrong - plus you have a few things to think about already.

The property was being rented, so noone really caring for the property to ensure issues are speedily attended to and done properly...

Also, why does OH happily risk spending thousands of pounds and insist on saving pennies by omitting the one thing that qualifies that risk and prepares you for what you are undertaking?

This is the only money worth spending so far, imo. The surveyor has no vested interest and the survey is thorough.

pichon

Thanks all for your comments. I fell asleep as I was writing a second reply last night.

All the houses on the street have one storey extension at the back which now includes kitchen and bathroom at the back, and three bedrooms upstairs. The wall in question adjoins the next door neighbour. Our kitchen taps and appliances are positioned to the opposite wall (if it's relevant at all). As it's not the original part of the house, the kitchen doesn't have a chimney breast. The chimney breast is in the sitting room and the master bedroom upstairs.

The house has been modestly updated over the years in neutral colour scheme, so it's not an all-out 70s style property, but as it's been primarily a rental property, finishing is not polished and it's not done to the highest standard.

The kitchen worktop needs replaced (if not all the kitchen units) and the laminate flooring in the hallway, dining room, and the kitchen is very tired. The units need to be taken down anyway for thorough investigation and treatment on the wall, so I am wondering whether it's wise to do the big work and extend the side return as soon as the sale completes, or just do the minimum and live in it for a while and see what we need and want. Right now, we have budget to do one extension (side return or loft conversion) but not both. Loft conversion is not immediate as space is sufficient for two of us and we are thinking about it as we expand. Many other houses on the street have done the loft and side return extension, and this house is quite a bit cheaper than the rest of the street for its shortcomings, so we think we can at least recover the expenditure. But wanting to do is one thing, and making sensible spending is another so we need to talk to EA, as side return/moving the bathroom upstairs means losing one bedroom for the time being.

We are in our thirties and have been saving up for quite some time, but as we know so little at this age, it's a bit embarrassing! My husband's siblings have bought a similar type of property with homebuyer's report, so I think he thought it's sufficient. I guess given all the helpful comments, it's better to have our lender Nationwide just do a valuation and get an independent building survey done. Thanks!

lessonlearned

Do not skimp on the survey.

Those textured walls and ceilings....... They are there for a reason, and it's not cosmetic. The plaster is probably at the end of its life, so you may well be looking at going back to brick. New electrics at a guess. And that's just for starters......

We've just done a house, built at the turn of the 20th century which was modernised in the 1980's.

We basically ripped everything out and started again. Roughly £25k, and that was just using the existing footprint, no extensions and, it was re roofed 10 years ago, so no money needed to be spent repairing or replacing a roof.

You could be in for some nasty surprises if you don't get a proper survey.

artyclarty

We are FTBs and are in the process of purchasing a 3 bed 50s ex LA semi. The choice of surveys we were offered were homebuyers for £500 or full structural for £800. I thought it was a no brainer for an extra £300. Glad we did as it brought up that the gable end wall ties had failed and that they need immediate attention. We would not have found this out with the homebuyers at all - this house is only about half the age of the one you are looking at so would definatley look at getting the full one done.

Also worth noting that of there is any artex, it is likely to contain asbestos (if done in the 70s) so you will have to be very careful if planning on doing any plasterwork at all.