New System Boiler

unclebulgaria

Seronera wrote: »

Do you suppose Worcester don't give away their boilers to British Gas at a very advantageous price? Of course Ideal do deals, everybody does as there is a boiler sales war out there. Don't compare the Logic or Vogue with the Isar/Icos though, it's a completely different kettle of fish and a complete doddle to work on. I always hated the Isar, but luckily do not have too many on my patch.

Have a look at the Baxi Ecoblue as well. That seems to be a step forward though the duotec is OK, as is the Main you mention

I wasn't talking about British Gas. The point I was making was that the manufacturers make house builders an offer they can't refuse regardless of the boilers reliability, that goes for every make. Ideal just seem to have offered a better deal than everyone else.
Anyway we digress. OP don't just choose the boiler from price/quality/look. Aftersales is worth its weight in gold. If Ideal have the best aftersales and everything else adds up then go for them.

jonesjw

I see reliability the most important factor, not aftersales.
Ideally, I don't deal with their aftersales people because the boiler just works.
I have an Ariston. This is most of the way through it's 9th winter without ever needing a repair, which is how I like it. Admittedly, I would prefer to have a Vaillant.

After reliability, it would be nice to see boiler makers offer an extended guarantee without requiring an "annual service". Car makers worked on extending service intervals over the years. I want the same from boilers. Mine had it's first service after 8 years Although I did personally ensure the system had 2 bottles of good corrosion inhibitor in the water after installation.

unclebulgaria

jonesjw wrote: »

I see reliability the most important factor, not aftersales.
Ideally, I don't deal with their aftersales people because the boiler just works.
I have an Ariston. This is most of the way through it's 9th winter without ever needing a repair, which is how I like it. Admittedly, I would prefer to have a Vaillant.

After reliability, it would be nice to see boiler makers offer an extended guarantee without requiring an "annual service". Car makers worked on extending service intervals over the years. I want the same from boilers. Mine had it's first service after 8 years Although I did personally ensure the system had 2 bottles of good corrosion inhibitor in the water after installation.

I'm sorry but I can't even take that statement seriously!!
You would like the boiler manufacturer to give you an extended warranty without you having to service it? Really?
You're actually bragging that you haven't had your boiler serviced in 8 years?

Seronera

jonesjw wrote: »

I see reliability the most important factor, not aftersales.
Ideally, I don't deal with their aftersales people because the boiler just works.
I have an Ariston. This is most of the way through it's 9th winter without ever needing a repair, which is how I like it. Admittedly, I would prefer to have a Vaillant.

After reliability, it would be nice to see boiler makers offer an extended guarantee without requiring an "annual service". Car makers worked on extending service intervals over the years. I want the same from boilers. Mine had it's first service after 8 years Although I did personally ensure the system had 2 bottles of good corrosion inhibitor in the water after installation.

If your boiler didn't have a service for 8 years I'm not sure how much more extended you want.

Servicing has changed a lot in the last 15 years.Servicing and breakdown work was my main task for 9 years on council and housing association contracts working for a large private company. On old style boilers we gave them a really good clean out. They mostly needed it and it was very satisfying to leave a grotty looking boiler looking spick and span inside and working as well as it ever could. All that has changed with modern high efficiency machines which run very cleanly, and where the main concern is to check the combustion values using a flue gas analyser. Some require dismantling and some do not (according to manufacturers instructions). Some stay in tune and some drift out of tune. It can only take a small drift for it to go from producing an acceptable 100 parts per million of carbon monoxide to in excess of 300ppm which is beyond acceptable limits. Gas valves can fail and leak at any time. Its not that common but it does happen and I probably replace between ten and twenty a year, roughly half of which are passing gas when they should not.

The problem is you just don't know without getting it checked from time to time. These days its not so much what a service engineer does as what he knows to look out for assuming he/she is conscientious. Its a bit like an eye test or a dental check up. 98% of the time its just routine, but 2% of the time you might just spot something that saves peoples lives, and you can't prejudge which times that will be the case.

I confess I'm just as bad. I had my first eye test for eight years yesterday and I got a right royal telling off from my optometrist (I've known him 30 years). As it happens not a lot had changed, but in that time something simple to deal with could have turned into something nasty. I was lucky, but we can't really depend on luck. Last week I did a landlords gas safety check on an eight year old Glow Worm that had clearly never been serviced properly. It needed nearly £350 of parts alone to make it safe and working properly, and I condemned a dangerous gas fire in the same property. You just can't tell. I didn't enjoy telling the landlord, but its better than a court appearance or worse for a poisoned tenant

jonesjw

unclebulgaria wrote: »

I'm sorry but I can't even take that statement seriously!!
You would like the boiler manufacturer to give you an extended warranty without you having to service it? Really?

Car manufacturers extend service intervals, whilst improving reliability and safety.
Why shouldn't I expect gas boiler manufacturers to do exactly the same?
Instead of a 3 year guarantee that requires a "service" every year, why not a 6 year guarantee with servicing required every 2 or 3 years? Reducing product maintenance is what good design and development engineers should be doing.
That's what I want as a customer.
Even when I did pay up for a service, he didn't clean inside the combustion chamber and made no adjustments. So I don't quite see what value this added.

Go back 50 years and cars would have oil changes every 6000 miles plus manual adjustment of brakes and various other things. They have made clear progress in extending service intervals.

Seronera

jonesjw wrote: »

Car manufacturers extend service intervals, whilst improving reliability and safety.
Why shouldn't I expect gas boiler manufacturers to do exactly the same?
Instead of a 3 year guarantee that requires a "service" every year, why not a 6 year guarantee with servicing required every 2 or 3 years? Reducing product maintenance is what good design and development engineers should be doing.
That's what I want as a customer.
Even when I did pay up for a service, he didn't clean inside the combustion chamber and made no adjustments. So I don't quite see what value this added.

Go back 50 years and cars would have oil changes every 6000 miles plus manual adjustment of brakes and various other things. They have made clear progress in extending service intervals.

You seem to have rather forgotten about the annual MOT test though, which means that after its three years old your car has an annual safety check...by law. Now, having a safety check sounds oddly familiar to me somehow. Maybe it should be a legal requirement for all gas appliances and not just those in rented properties to have an annual MOT type test..;)

Then it would be exactly like a car wouldn't it.:D