New System Boiler

Speccytacular

Hi Guys,

Long time lurker but first-time poster. Just after a bit of advice. We're having an extension built and as part of this we are replacing an old heating system with Combi boiler to have a new system boiler with storage tank.

We're not really worried about the make of the storage tank but I assume we'll probably buy the same brand as the boiler that we get if that makes sense.

The builder has said he'll price up an Ariston system boiler. The problem is I can't really find any current reviews about the modern Ariston boilers. I can only find mixed reviews that are a few years old. A heating engineer friend has recommended a Worcester Bosch all day long.

The Ariston comes with a 10 year warranty (WB has a 2 year warranty). I'm not sure there's going to be that much difference in the price of the actual boiler. Should I rely on my gut instinct of going for the WB and are there any scare stories of the Ariston? I know it's a difference of 8 years of a warranty but I don't want to actually use the warranty and I've heard WBs are very reliable.

Many Thanks.

Seronera

Well I'd listen to one heating engineer before a hundred builders and I certainly would not have an Ariston in my house as a personal choice.

There is nothing wrong with a Worcester Bosch but I am continually amazed at the reverence they seem to engender. Its more like a religion really as they are not that well designed, they are complicated to repair and they use aluminium heat exchangers just like all the average boilers out there. Expensive boilers like the Viessmann range, Glow Worm Ultracom, Vaillant Ecotec and Ideal Vogue use stainless steel.

Everybody in the know is fitting Ideal Logics or Glow Worm Ultracoms or Vaillant Ecotecs. On a private forum for heating engineers we are currently having a poll after a question was asked about which medium price boiler would you choose for eight new flats. Well after about 20 votes the Logic has got eleven or so, the Glow Worm Ultracom has got about eight votes and a few saying go a slightly more expensive Vaillant Ecotec, and a few say Baxi.

OK, so its not really scientific but not one has suggested a Worcester Bosch. I know I fix just as many WBs as anything else and whilst most are fine, I know a few that have been atrocious........just like any other make of boiler really. So why pay the premium? It beats me for sure. I just don't see the evidence that they are any more or less reliable than other mainstream makes that are substantially cheaper to buy and to maintain.

Speccytacular

That's great, cheers. It's always good to know about the parts that go into these things and things like that that aren't apparent from reading online.

I suppose it's like everything else. If you really don't have a clue what you're buying you just blindly follow the crowd.

Will look into the Ideals and Glow Worms.

Thanks.

unclebulgaria

Seronera wrote: »

Well I'd listen to one heating engineer before a hundred builders and I certainly would not have an Ariston in my house as a personal choice.
Agreed!

There is nothing wrong with a Worcester Bosch but I am continually amazed at the reverence they seem to engender. Its more like a religion really as they are not that well designed, they are complicated to repair and they use aluminium heat exchangers just like all the average boilers out there. Expensive boilers like the Viessmann range, Glow Worm Ultracom, Vaillant Ecotec and Ideal Vogue use stainless steel.
Viessmann have plastic hydraulic units which split, Glowworm are a mid range boiler but are damn expensive when it comes to repairs, same with Vaillant, Ideal don't have a lot of fans where I'm from.

Everybody in the know is fitting Ideal Logics or Glow Worm Ultracoms or Vaillant Ecotecs (Everybody, really?). On a private forum for heating engineers we are currently having a poll after a question was asked about which medium price boiler would you choose for eight new flats. Well after about 20 votes the Logic has got eleven or so, the Glow Worm Ultracom has got about eight votes and a few saying go a slightly more expensive Vaillant Ecotec, and a few say Baxi.

OK, so its not really scientific but not one has suggested a Worcester Bosch (probably because I don't know anyone who thinks of a WB as medium ranged in price). I know I fix just as many WBs as anything else and whilst most are fine, I know a few that have been atrocious........just like any other make of boiler really. So why pay the premium? It beats me for sure. I just don't see the evidence that they are any more or less reliable than other mainstream makes that are substantially cheaper to buy and to maintain.

Ariston boilers aren't anywhere near the most reliable or well built boilers on the market and I personally would steer clear.
Ask 10 heating engineers on here which boiler they would choose and you may well get different answers.
Every single boiler on the UK market has design issues that annoy one person or another. Don't look at just the build quality, look at the after sales service. No point having an expensive boiler if the aftersales are hopeless!

MX5huggy

unclebulgaria wrote: »

Ariston boilers aren't anywhere near the most reliable or well built boilers on the market and I personally would steer clear.
Ask 10 heating engineers on here which boiler they would choose and you may well get different answers.
Every single boiler boiler on the UK market has design issues that annoy one person or another. Don't look at just the build quality, look at the after sales service. No point having an expensive boiler if the aftersales are hopeless!

Are you a politician? What would you fit?

Seronera

Worcesters have plastic components which split. They all do. The ideal logic had brass until three months ago, now they too have gone to plastic.

They have sold well over a million logics in the UK in the last five years and the simple fact is they are not breaking down much, and when they do Ideal are proving really good at putting them right, and they are good value and what's more all my customers who have them are chuffed to bits with them. It's a brilliant piece of design and it's simple to service and so easy to get at components. It makes me laugh when I see what Worcester Bosch manage to do to the inside of a boiler. Anyone who puts a PRV facing backwards has to be some kind of sadist. Their stupid filling loop key system is a joke and now they are suddenly advertising a proper keyless filing loop you have to buy it as an extra. Its beyond belief really in the daft design dept. To clean their heat exchangers you have to buy a special kit, and it's not a giveaway price. With a logic you take the lid off with four screws and tip some hot water through it to clean it. You can even reuse the gasket.

I just don't see why WB are anything special. The junior is not a boiler I would want to own, nor the compact and whilst the cdi has been good I gather the latest modifications have knocked the shine off that too.

I used to work a lot on Glow Worms and I have mixed feelings, but the Ultracom and Flexicom have got a reasonable track record. All electronics in the heating world are uniformly poor though in my experience. The GW sxi I worked on today was on its third PCB since 2007, and it needed a gas valve, but it had not been serviced from new either, so the inside was a mess.

Someone tell me why Worcester's are special?

unclebulgaria

MX5huggy wrote: »

Are you a politician? What would you fit?

I fit Baxi, Potterton, Worcester Bosch, Main and rarely Viessmann.
I used to fit Heatline as a budget option but won't anymore as they're a rip off to fix when they need parts.
I fitted Vaillant but got annoyed with their aftersales service and a constant problem I had with one of their boilers circulation pumps.
Glowworm lost me business due to over inflated prices for parts out of warranty.
Like I said, other people may have an issue with my choices.
To be fair, Ideal have sold a lot of boilers but I know an Ideal Service engineer and he told me its only because Ideal have made offers that the home builders couldn't refuse.
The Worcesters are cheeky beggars when it comes to cost of service tools but until they get hurt in the pocket that won't change. Agreed they are hard to work on in certain instances but so are Ideal.
Main issue is don't allow a builder to choose your boiler!

Seronera

Do you suppose Worcester don't give away their boilers to British Gas at a very advantageous price? Of course Ideal do deals, everybody does as there is a boiler sales war out there. Don't compare the Logic or Vogue with the Isar/Icos though, it's a completely different kettle of fish and a complete doddle to work on. I always hated the Isar, but luckily do not have too many on my patch.

Have a look at the Baxi Ecoblue as well. That seems to be a step forward though the duotec is OK, as is the Main you mention

Speccytacular

A good, friendly argument always brings out the best advice. The consensus is that we should steer clear of the Ariston. What we should buy remains a bit uncertain. Think we'll look at the ideal logic + as it comes with a 7 year warranty for piece of mind.


Thanks all.

Seronera

Speccytacular wrote: »

A good, friendly argument always brings out the best advice. The consensus is that we should steer clear of the Ariston. What we should buy remains a bit uncertain. Think we'll look at the ideal logic + as it comes with a 7 year warranty for piece of mind.


Thanks all.

I put one in the local dentist's two years ago.Two months ago he rang me and asked me to replace the boilers in his other two surgeries as his staff understand the Logic as it speaks English on its little screen instead of just displaying codes and numbers.It must be the plus model though to get this.

If you go mad and get Weather Compensation Ideal charge less than £50 for their kit, Worcester want in excess of £150....well you work it out

jonesjw

Most of the way though my 9'th winter with an Ariston.
Had one slow water leak, repaired with a jubilee clip several years ago.
No other repairs or failures.
OK, so I would prefer a Vaillant, however it was a case of what I could get people to quote on at the time. The Ariston is doing fine at present.