School fine withdrawn!

peachyprice

Did you KNOW the child was being removed from school beforehand?

If you did the time to act was before the holiday was taken, you could have written to the school/EWS and told them the child was being removed without your permission.

If you didn't know, well, what could you have done to stop it? Nothing.

If you didn't know beforehand I'd let it go to court, they can't 'fine' you for something you were unaware of even happening until after the event.

If you did know, you don't really have much chance, you let it happen without protest or protecting your own stance.

Better_Days

Bit more info on parental rights and responsibilities

Are there any limitations on the decisions I can make by myself?

PR is shared equally between every person with PR for the child. Theoretically, an individual with PR can make decisions about the child on their own if it is necessary and reasonable, given the circumstances.

Parent with day to day care, makes 'everyday' decisions: The parent with the day to day care of the child, whether this is the mother or father, will make the everyday decisions about the child, and should not be prevented from doing so by the non-resident parent.


Important decisions need permission from anyone else with PR: You cannot make important decisions about the upbringing of your child without permission from all other persons with PR, unless they delegate all of their power to you. Such important decisions include changing your child's surname, consenting to their marriage or adoption, and deciding whether he or she emigrates to another country.
You should consult the child's mother regarding any important decisions, in order to save recourse to the courts if / when disagreements arise. Once a decision has been made by the court, everyone with PR must do exactly what the judge has ordered and the power to make decisions for yourself will have been taken away from you. It should be noted that the court is very unlikely to want to interfere in the more minor and trivial decisions that parents should be able to agree upon between themselves.

http://www.separateddads.co.uk/download-parental-responsibility-guide-letters.html

I would think that school attendance falls within the 'day to day' responsibility, but this may be a case of how the school chooses to interpret the law.

Auntie_Social has the school told you that you will be fined for non attendance even when the child is not with you?

fluffnutter

Marisco wrote: »

How is he responsible? The mother can more or less do what she wants with the child, and doesn't have to defer to him at all. By the time he finds out the child has been taken out of school, it's too late. If the mother decides to go for a week away, and takes the child out of school for it, how exactly is he supposed to stop her?

Yes, if they have an amicable separation/divorce it might be possible to talk to her, otherwise it will be impossible.

Then he argues that in court doesn't he. If that's a reasonable stance then I'm sure they'll agree that he is indeed, not responsible for his child when he or she's not with him and waive the fine.

Or perhaps they'll be both told to build a better relationship for the sake of their child and stop passing the buck when something happens that they don't like. Maybe a judge will even put it more sympathetically than me.

I bet if something pleasant happens to the child when parent B is not around, they're quick to take credit for/advantage of it. It's only when something bad happens that they scream 'nothing to do with me!'. Strange that.

fluffnutter

Jagraf wrote: »

I wonder if a child stole something which parent would be responsible then.

Or turn it on its head... what if child does something wonderful? Do we think dad would say 'Oh, nothing to do with me, all the accolades must go to the mother. It happened when I wasn't around' or do you think he'd bask in the reflected glory of his child's achievements?

People seem perfectly happy to take credit when something good happens but less willing to take responsibility when something bad happens.

Marisco

peachyprice wrote: »

Did you KNOW the child was being removed from school beforehand?

If you did the time to act was before the holiday was taken, you could have written to the school/EWS and told them the child was being removed without your permission.

If you didn't know, well, what could you have done to stop it? Nothing.

If you didn't know beforehand I'd let it go to court, they can't 'fine' you for something you were unaware of even happening until after the event.

If you did know, you don't really have much chance, you let it happen without protest or protecting your own stance.

TBH I just assumed he didn't know about it, otherwise I cannot see the point of complaining about something he already knew about. Although even if he did know, there is probably nothing he could do about it. She could just tell him to do one if he complained, and short of kidnapping the child, there is nothing he could do, if she was determined to go ahead with it.

Something really needs to be sorted out in these situations though i.e divorced/separated parents, otherwise we'll see more and more of these cases clogging up the courts. It's no good just saying "well they both have parental responsibility", yes, they might, but if the one the child lives with, decides to do something the absent parent doesn't agree with, why should the absent parent be held to account for something he can do nothing about?

It should be a "household" fine, so the household the child happens to be in when this happens, is the one that should pay the fine. If it happens when the child is with the father, then it's his responsibility and vice versa the mother.

fluffnutter

peachyprice wrote: »

Did you KNOW the child was being removed from school beforehand?

If you did the time to act was before the holiday was taken, you could have written to the school/EWS and told them the child was being removed without your permission.

If you didn't know, well, what could you have done to stop it? Nothing.

If you didn't know beforehand I'd let it go to court, they can't 'fine' you for something you were unaware of even happening until after the event.

If you did know, you don't really have much chance, you let it happen without protest or protecting your own stance.

Sound summary, peachyprice, although I'd suggest that if your relationship with your ex is so bad or non-existent that they're able to take your child away without your knowledge then a £60 fine is the least of your worries.

It would seem odd wouldn't it, not that we know whether he knew or not, but if kid's about to go on holiday wouldn't he or she tell dad? Wouldn't kid be really excited? What about regular time spent with dad? If dad has the kid, say, every wednesday, what happens when they were on holiday? Did kid just not turn up leaving dad to wonder where he or she was?

It would be very difficult, if you're regularly in your child's life, for the other parent to take the child away without your being aware of it. It just shouldn't happen.

It would be interesting to know whether the OP knew about this, even if he found out when kid comes back with a tan and a toy donkey. At which point was he jumping up and down about kid going on holiday during term time without his knowledge? Or did he only start getting aerated when he was slapped with a £60 fine?

It's also worth pointing out that fines are not just for term time holidays. They can also be issued for repeated absences, i.e. persistent but minor truancy, an afternoon off here, a morning off there. They're also used if your child is seen in a public place whilst suspended.

Marisco

fluffnutter wrote: »

Then he argues that in court doesn't he. If that's a reasonable stance then I'm sure they'll agree that he is indeed, not responsible for his child when he or she's not with him and waive the fine.

Or perhaps they'll be both told to build a better relationship for the sake of their child and stop passing the buck when something happens that they don't like. Maybe a judge will even put it more sympathetically than me.

I bet if something pleasant happens to the child when parent B is not around, they're quick to take credit for/advantage of it. It's only when something bad happens that they scream 'nothing to do with me!'. Strange that.

Which is what I said in my first post!

Sometimes this is impossible, usually down to spite and bitterness - on either side.

Are they?

fluffnutter

Marisco wrote: »

TBH I just assumed he didn't know about it, otherwise I cannot see the point of complaining about something he already knew about. Although even if he did know, there is probably nothing he could do about it. She could just tell him to do one if he complained, and short of kidnapping the child, there is nothing he could do, if she was determined to go ahead with it.

Something really needs to be sorted out in these situations though i.e divorced/separated parents, otherwise we'll see more and more of these cases clogging up the courts. It's no good just saying "well they both have parental responsibility", yes, they might, but if the one the child lives with, decides to do something the absent parent doesn't agree with, why should the absent parent be held to account for something he can do nothing about?

It should be a "household" fine, so the household the child happens to be in when this happens, is the one that should pay the fine. If it happens when the child is with the father, then it's his responsibility and vice versa the mother.

But I'd argue that he can do something about it. It's not easy, I know but you've got to put your own egos and feelings aside when you separate or divorce and work together to bring your children up. I see all the time people moaning about their vile and unreasonable exes when really they just both need to man up, swallow their pride and try to be civil. Instead they squabble and fight and run each other down, seemingly oblivious to the effect that this is having on their kids.

Marisco

fluffnutter wrote: »

It's also worth pointing out that fines are not just for term time holidays. They can also be issued for repeated absences, i.e. persistent but minor truancy, an afternoon off here, a morning off there. They're also used if your child is seen in a public place whilst suspended.

And how exactly is the absent parent supposed to know about this, unless either the child or other parent tells him? Especially if you don't live close or even in another town/city?

fluffnutter

Marisco wrote: »

Which is what I said in my first post!

Sometimes this is impossible, usually down to spite and bitterness - on either side.

"Sorry, we're not going to talk to one another and try to work together for the sake of our children because we're too spiteful and bitter". Do you think that's right? Your feelings about your ex are not a reason not to put your kids first. It's something to be understood and sympathised with, but not excused.