School fine withdrawn!

stir_crazy

fluffnutter wrote: »

Ha ha! You've had to change my scenario to show it's not the same as the OP's .

I specifically said that the grandparents have acted without the parents' knowledge. You can't ignore that salient point simply because it doesn't fit with your argument!

So tell me again, what's so different? Person looking after child does something parent is not aware of. Is it right to abdicate parent of all responsibility?

My apologies, I missed that part. Regardless, as the grandparents are - again - presumably on good terms with the parents (and this is only going from my own experiences with my parents) they would cover the whole cost of taking the child on holiday for the week. This includes payment of the fine.

Marisco

fluffnutter wrote: »

When you ask the silent person why they don't communicate, they tend to say 'it's not me! They won't communicate with me!'. It's amazing how the same argument is used by both parents. Why is that?

Well they are hardly going to admit to it are they? If someone refuses to talk to you, there is very little that can be done unfortunately. Oh used to phone and get the phone slammed down on him, he'd go to pick them up and either get screamed at or the door wouldn't be opened. So what would you suggest?

I can't believe you're so out of touch that you don't realise that there are some dreadful people out there, but like I said, before I had experience of it, I'd not have believed that some people can be truly awful to the extent oh's ex was either.

fluffnutter

fivetide wrote: »

You seem to see things differently to a lot of people.


You have made a lot of assumptions, you seem to think it is all easily resolvable and everyone who has a nightmare ex is to blame for them being a nightmare. Must be nice to live in your world.


As others have said, I hope you are never in this situation. Until then, you have made your point but you seem to lack the life experience to talk from a position of true knowledge FN.

What assumptions have I made? Why do I think this is easily resolvable? Perhaps you need to read my posts properly. Pay particular attention to

It's not easy, I know

It's something to be understood and sympathised with (feeling angry with an ex)

It's not easy, I'm not saying that.

How do you know what my situation is? Do you know that my OH doesn't have children with his ex? An ex who is challenging and uncooperative? Well, do you?

Marisco

fluffnutter wrote: »

Ha ha! You've had to change my scenario to show it's not the same as the OP's .

I specifically said that the grandparents have acted without the parents' knowledge. You can't ignore that salient point simply because it doesn't fit with your argument!

So tell me again, what's so different? Person looking after child does something parent is not aware of. Is it right to abdicate parent of all responsibility?

Then the grandparents should pay the fine. How in god's name is it the parents fault if they don't know about it? If they thought the grandparents were liable to do this sort of thing, don't you think they'd have had a word with them and told them not to? If on the other hand, they were told that the GP's were taking them on holiday, and just said "aye ok then", then yes it is the parents fault.

Mojisola

Marisco wrote: »

Then the grandparents should pay the fine.

But it wouldn't be the grandparents who would be fined - it would be the parents.

fluffnutter

stir_crazy wrote: »

My apologies, I missed that part. Regardless, as the grandparents are - again - presumably on good terms with the parents (and this is only going from my own experiences with my parents) they would cover the whole cost of taking the child on holiday for the week. This includes payment of the fine.

It's not about whether or not they pay the fine. Perhaps the OP's ex will give him £60. That's not relevant. What I'm arguing is that the parents are still responsible regardless of who the child is currently with.

The important thing is that the parent is fined, not the grandparents. They're deemed legally responsible. So are you saying that a child's father is responsible for the child when the child is with its grandparents but isn't responsible when the child is with its mother? I think to make the argument work that these scenarios are different would rest on the belief that when your child is with someone else who has parental responsibility, then yours ceases until that child is in your care again. That's not what I believe.

That's the crux of my argument and no doubt it's one that could be debated either way. I personally believe, as a parent with parental responsibility, that that duty is ever present. It doesn't stop because your child pops to the shops, or stays with his grandparents, or is currently with your ex. I suspect that's the way the law sees it too which is why they've decided to fine both parents if a child misses school. Some people may argue for a different definition of parental responsibility. Which is great, and the whole point of debate really.

Marisco

Mojisola wrote: »

But it wouldn't be the grandparents who would be fined - it would be the parents.

Oh I know that, but it's not right. FN is arguing it is right as the parents should be responsible, even if they know nowt about it!!

fivetide

fluffnutter wrote: »

What assumptions have I made? Why do I think this is easily resolvable? Perhaps you need to read my posts properly. Pay particular attention to

I read them.

You ask what's going on in your child's life. You keep asking. You make sure you're directly and regularly involved. Of course things are difficult but why aren't you living that close? Did you make the decision to move away from your child? Why? Could you not have stayed closer? Perhaps you left for work? Was that the only job you could have possibly taken? Perhaps you left because of a new relationship? Well, you've prioritised that over your child so perhaps you've got no right to then complain it's not easy to know what's going on in your child's life.

That right there is an assumption. It is full of them.


You should read your own stuff back.

How do you know what my situation is? Do you know that my OH doesn't have children with his ex? An ex who is challenging and uncooperative? Well, do you?

You are right there, I don't. But everything about your approach and the simple fact you are arguing all on your own here when others have been able to reference specific issues with ex's (all their fault according to you) yet you have not provided one single actual example/experience says that logically, you haven't been in this situation.


The paragraph I quoted above is just wrong. All the way through. If you had been in a situation like this, you would know that.


All you have done is take the OP's thread away banging the same drum. Numerous people have told you that you are wrong. They have presented examples and reasoned debate yet you refuse to listen.

Mojisola

fluffnutter wrote: »

It's not about whether or not they pay the fine.

What I'm arguing is that the parents are still responsible regardless of who the child is currently with.

Separated parents both still have parental responsibility but only one parent has control over the child's life at any one time.

The parent who makes the decision to take the child out of school is the one responsible for his/her absence. The other parent has no way of stopping it happening.

If the parents are still together, they are equally responsible and should both be fined.

Marisco

fluffnutter wrote: »

It's not about whether or not they pay the fine. Perhaps the OP's ex will give him £60. That's not relevant. What I'm arguing is that the parents are still responsible regardless of who the child is currently with.

The important thing is that the parent is fined, not the grandparents. They're deemed legally responsible. So are you saying that a child's father is responsible for the child when the child is with its grandparents but isn't responsible when the child is with its mother?

That's the crux of my argument and no doubt it's one that could be debated either way. I personally believe, as a parent with parental responsibility, that that duty is ever present. It doesn't stop because your child pops to the shops, or stays with his grandparents, or is currently with your ex. I suspect that's the way the law sees it too which is why they've decided to fine both parents if a child misses school. Some people may argue for a different definition of parental responsibility. Which is great, and the whole point of debate really.

Whoever is in charge of the child i.e they are with, on the particular day that the child bunks off, is the one that should pay the fine, unless the parents are complicit in it. If the parent/s know nothing about it, then why should they be held responsible for something they didn't agree to/know about?

If my daughter left her kids, my grandchildren, in my care, and I decide to keep them off school to go shopping or whatever, why should my daughter be responsible for something I decided to do, without her knowledge? It would probably mean she'd never trust me again, but nonetheless, it still wouldn't be her fault and she shouldn't have to pay for it!