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masonic

Westie983 wrote: »

As a non tax payer I have no need for ISA's but have taken up this offer due to the interest gained in 12 months time.

Most taxpayers also have no need for cash ISAs at the moment.

arbster

masonic wrote: »

So you think withdrawing a £300 balance paid into an instant access cash ISA would be interpreted as abuse by the bank? You think banks are closing the accounts of people who do not use accounts in the way the bank intended them to be used (with the obvious exception of illegal use)?

Care to substantiate any of these claims?

If, as you claim, there is a risk HSBC will close the accounts of those who "abuse" their products, don't you think those of us who do not pay their salary into, or have any direct debits coming out of, our Advance accounts are at greater risk of being shown the door by HSBC than someone who deposits, and then withdraws, money from their instant access ISA?

It's only a matter of time. LBG "appears" to be doing it already, based on initial anecdotal evidence.

As someone who made tens of thousands from casino and sports betting promotions 10 years ago, before MSE and other forums "popularised" them, I know full well how the golden goose can be easily slain. Those of us who were less blatant managed to hang on longer than those who "optimised" the offers, but none of us was immune from the inevitable crackdown.

masonic

arbster wrote: »

It's only a matter of time. LBG "appears" to be doing it already, based on initial anecdotal evidence.

And this anecdotal evidence is from someone posting about it on this forum?

I've extracted more money out of Lloyds group than anywhere else and will surely be amongst the first to go if what you claim is true. However, I strongly doubt they will be closing the accounts of customers who have used their accounts in accordance with the T&Cs and are not suspected of fraud or ML. It just paves the way for complaints that will cost more to resolve than simply modifying T&Cs to keep the problem in check.

As someone who made tens of thousands from casino and sports betting promotions 10 years ago, before MSE and other forums "popularised" them, I know full well how the golden goose can be easily slain. Those of us who were less blatant managed to hang on longer than those who "optimised" the offers, but none of us was immune from the inevitable crackdown.

That's a slightly different kettle of fish. I was probably one of the ones who helped spoil it for you, sorry. :doh:

arbster

masonic wrote: »

And this anecdotal evidence is from someone posting about it on this forum?

I've extracted more money out of Lloyds group than anywhere else and will surely be amongst the first to go if what you claim is true. However, I strongly doubt they will be closing the accounts of customers who have used their accounts in accordance with the T&Cs and are not suspected of fraud or ML. It just paves the way for complaints that will cost more to resolve than simply modifying T&Cs to keep the problem in check.

Have seen a few people on here reporting having their accounts summarily closed, but of course you never know what they're not telling us. I hope you manage to stay under the radar for a lot longer.

masonic wrote: »

That's a slightly different kettle of fish. I was probably one of the ones who helped spoil it for you, sorry. :doh:

I'll forgive you, but don't tell my wife it was you...

Ed-1

masonic wrote: »

It just paves the way for complaints that will cost more to resolve than simply modifying T&Cs to keep the problem in check.

Even complying with T&Cs doesn't make you immune - most people (including me) that have reported LBG closure decisions have been on standard 60 day closure notices and it's spelled out in black and white that they can decide to close your accounts with them for any reason given 60 days notice (or immediately in cases of suspected fraud).

Lloyds standard account closure letter example

You have absolutely no grounds for complaint if they decide to review your accounts.

masonic

Ed-1 wrote: »

Even complying with T&Cs doesn't make you immune - most people (including me) that have reported LBG closure decisions have been on standard 60 day closure notices and it's spelled out in black and white that they can decide to close your accounts with them for any reason given 60 days notice (or immediately in cases of suspected fraud).

Lloyds standard account closure letter example

You have absolutely no grounds for complaint if they decide to review your accounts.

I'm well aware that they avail themselves of the right to do so for any reason, but there is a difference between what they can do and what they do in practice. If they did decide to close the accounts of everyone who had a Halifax Reward account with two Tesco DDs, for example, then you can imagine the reaction around these parts and the potential for negative publicity.

And it is not the case that you have absolutely no grounds for complaint if a bank decides to close your account. The FOS will hear complaints about accounts being closed - it just doesn't uphold the majority of these complaints. However, the bank would generally have to pay for these complaints to be adjudicated unless the FOS believes the complaint was frivolous (e.g. the customer has previously threatened to pursue a complaint just to cause the bank a financial loss).

Ed-1

masonic wrote: »

I'm well aware that they avail themselves of the right to do so for any reason, but there is a difference between what they can do and what they do in practice. If they did decide to close the accounts of everyone who had a Halifax Reward account with two Tesco DDs, for example, then you can imagine the reaction around these parts and the potential for negative publicity.

That is why they are not doing it "en masse" (yet). But if and when accounts are reviewed you're a prime candidate for the chop if you are abusing accounts in a stoozing fashion (i.e. only having it to cream off the rewards) - what triggers that review is unknown. For example, applying for a new account might etc.

masonic wrote: »

And it is not the case that you have absolutely no grounds for complaint if a bank decides to close your account. The FOS will hear complaints about accounts being closed - it just doesn't uphold the majority of these complaints. However, the bank would generally have to pay for these complaints to be adjudicated unless the FOS believes the complaint was frivolous (e.g. the customer has previously threatened to pursue a complaint just to cause the bank a financial loss).

Of course you can complain, but if the bank has given 60 days notice there's little point as the bank can simply hide behind its T&Cs. If the bank has closed the accounts immediately, they'd have to justify it.

masonic

Ed-1 wrote: »

That is why they are not doing it "en masse" (yet). But if and when accounts are reviewed you're a prime candidate for the chop if you are abusing accounts in a stoozing fashion (i.e. only having it to cream off the rewards) - what triggers that review is unknown. For example, applying for a new account might etc.

Well, I have been a "loyal" stoozer (it isn't really stoozing as that's something else) at Halifax since the beginning of 2009 and have opened and closed a number of Lloyds and Halifax accounts since then, so that suggests either opening and closing accounts does not necessarily cause a review, or that I have passed their review without incident. My own view is that it is behaviour or circumstances other than simply doing the minimum to collect the reward that has led to the closures thus far.

But of course nobody knows for sure. However, if you do believe they are manually going through everyone's accounts in order to weed out the "abusers" one by one, don't you think it would be much easier for them to simply modify the T&Cs instead?

Of course you can complain, but if the bank has given 60 days notice there's little point as the bank can simply hide behind its T&Cs. If the bank has closed the accounts immediately, they'd have to justify it.

As I stated above, a complaint costs money whether it succeeds or fails. Many people would complain, not knowing how unlikely they would be to get a satisfactory result. Again, there are easier ways for the banks to achieve their objective.

Westie983

working for LBG, lots of people are simply following the t&C's and if this is done then there is nothing to worry about, there are lots of incentives around and I'm sure the banks are aware that some customers are chasing the incentives, but as long as you pass the criteria and agree to the T&C I cant see them reviewing the accounts unless something else have caused them to review the accounts....

sildenafil

For anybody trying to take up this offer having already deposited into another cash isa this tax year, the minimum deposit needed to open this isa is £1. I have fully subscribed this tax year to my First Direct isa and was hoping to open the HSBC account (with zero balance) and transfer £300 (from previous year subscription) to take advantage of this offer. As it would mean subscribing to two different cash isas in the same year, this is not possible? Although, what are the penalties if I was to open a new cash isa with HSBC with £1, transfer £300 in, then withdraw the original £1? I'm not suggesting anyone to do it, just wondering what sort of reprimands or repercussions could come from it?