Booked for using mobile while stationery

matttye

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

So why bring up the fact the vehicle may or may not be in gear?

The logical conclusion I come to is that the police check if the engine is on or not to determine whether someone is about to drive off.

Clearly being in gear would be more of a determining factor than the engine being on, but as they're unable to tell if a car is in gear, they go for the next best thing.

benham3160

matttye wrote: »

The logical conclusion I come to is that the police check if the engine is on or not to determine whether someone is about to drive off.

Clearly being in gear would be more of a determining factor than the engine being on, but as they're unable to tell if a car is in gear, they go for the next best thing.

What if it is a hybrid vehicle that uses electric motors at low speed?

**Mind blown mime**

Spicy_McHaggis

benham3160 wrote: »

What if it is a hybrid vehicle that uses electric motors at low speed?

**Mind blown mime**

Still driving.

Aretnap

matttye wrote: »

If you have your car in gear, but you're stationary, and you're looking in your mirror waiting for an opportunity to pull out into traffic, would you say you're driving or not?

I would.

How can the police tell if your car is in gear or not? They can't!

I think the courts will likely say engine on = driving for the purposes of the legislation.

Agreed though, I can't find a single case in the court of appeal that has considered the point.

I believe Planton v DPP is the main authority for the proposition that one can be driving a stationary car.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2001/450.html

"Reliance is placed upon the fact that there was no movement of the vehicle at the material time. I do not consider that Lord Widgery was seeking in his definition to limit the situations in which a person can be driving to those when the vehicle is actually moving. A driver who stops his vehicle at traffic lights is clearly, in my judgment, still driving that vehicle. It is a question of fact and degree as to whether the cessation of movement has been for so long and in such circumstances that it cannot reasonably be said that the person in the driving seat is driving."

However it doesn't actually say that engine on = driving in all circumstance, or for that matter that engine off = not driving.

matttye

Aretnap wrote: »

I believe Planton v DPP is the main authority for the proposition that one can be driving a stationary car.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2001/450.html

"Reliance is placed upon the fact that there was no movement of the vehicle at the material time. I do not consider that Lord Widgery was seeking in his definition to limit the situations in which a person can be driving to those when the vehicle is actually moving. A driver who stops his vehicle at traffic lights is clearly, in my judgment, still driving that vehicle. It is a question of fact and degree as to whether the cessation of movement has been for so long and in such circumstances that it cannot reasonably be said that the person in the driving seat is driving."

However it doesn't actually say that engine on = driving in all circumstance, or for that matter that engine off = not driving.

There are clear cases where people are being done for this whilst using their phone whilst parked up somewhere with the engine on. So it appears that the police are being over zealous, at least.

Maybe if more people took their cases to courts we'd have a greater idea of how the courts see it.

Mankysteve

So at lights I can turn my engine off make a phone call then turn engine back on and that fine?

I agree its daft getting done for being parked up with engine running. Its makes no sense.

Daz2009

What about electric cars ?
Are you deemed to be driving if you're sat behind the wheel at the side of the road,parked up but on the phone ?

Spicy_McHaggis

Daz2009 wrote: »

What about electric cars ?
Are you deemed to be driving if you're sat behind the wheel at the side of the road,parked up but on the phone ?

Unless you have an electric car I wouldn't worry about it.

bod1467

What about cars with Stop/Start function? If I pull over to the side of the road (assuming I'm legally allowed to there), put the handbrake on (optional), put the car in neutral and release the clutch, my engine will stop. Simply pressing the clutch restarts the engine.

Am I driving or parked?

Spicy_McHaggis

bod1467 wrote: »

What about cars with Stop/Start function? If I pull over to the side of the road (assuming I'm legally allowed to there), put the handbrake on (optional), put the car in neutral and release the clutch, my engine will stop. Simply pressing the clutch restarts the engine.

Am I driving or parked?

Without the handbrake on and in neutral?

Driving.