Natwest Advantage Gold - Refund - £2256 !!!

degamwaro

Martin - Just want to say a massive thanks for your post on reclaiming packaged account fees. I was mis-sold the account in 1997 having being told i needed it to apply for an extended overdraft. I used your template and within one week they refunded £1349.15 in charges and £907.42 in back dated Interest. So in total i got back £2256.57 for the cost of a first class stamp. However, the reasoning on the letter explaining the refund does not tally up. They said that i opened the account in 1997 and they paid up to 2010 when they sent me a Advantage Gold pack and asked if it was still appropriate. If i did not respond, they assumed that i was happy with it. However, the charges for that period total more than what they have refunded me. Should i take it or query it ?

abeckett

Hi

did you hear anything back about this. Natwest have agreed to refund me up to 2010 only as they sent out details regarding the charges after this so will not pay out 2010-2015?? Is that right or should I dispute this further?

Terri17

Hi, I was pressurised into changing my current natwest account to an advantage gold account in 2003. I didn't use or need the benefits - but they made me feel that it was soooo great that I just went along with it - and carried on paying it until Dec 2015! It was only when I read on here how they were being mis-sold did I fully appreciate what I'd done and how much money I had wasted. Using the templates on here I complained to Natwest who rejected my claim, then sent it to the ombudsman who also rejected it. They are saying it falls outside the regulations as it's over six years ago and I had ample time to complain before - but I only realised recently from this site that I had been mis sold. I honestly didn't think about it since the day they persuaded me to upgrade my account. I just trusted their advice and went along with it like a fool. Is there anything else I can do or do I just have accept their decision??

This is what they said:
You’ve explained that you felt pressured into changing your account and that you didn’t need or use the benefits. From the information I’ve seen, your Advantage Gold account was sold in June 2003 – more than six years before you first made your complaint. I also think you should reasonably have known you had a reason to complain more than three years before you did – so unfortunately your complaint falls outside the three-year time limit as well.

This is because NatWest sent you a ‘Refresh Pack’ in July 2009 – more than three years before you first complained in January 2016 – highlighting a summary of the benefits and cost of the account and asking you to contact them if you would like a review. The terms and conditions of the benefits were also set out in detail in the accompanying leaflet.

Because part of your complaint is about not needing or using the benefits provided by the Advantage Gold account, I believe you ought to have realised a problem may have occurred at the time of sale when you received this Refresh Pack.

dunstonh

They are saying it falls outside the regulations as it's over six years ago and I had ample time to complain before - but I only realised recently from this site that I had been mis sold.

The timebar rules have two parts. Both must be satisfied. That is 6 years from the date of the sale and 3 years from being reasonably aware of an issue to raise the complaint.

The timebar rules are there to prevent people who dont really have a complaint from making one to attempt financial gain. Typically aimed at people who didn't think they were mis-sold until someone decided to encourage them to put a complaint in.

A sale in 2003 covers the 6 year rule but something must have triggered the three year rule. Packaged accounts do often send out annual benefit statements and a reminder that there are other accounts available. These allow the three year clock to start ticking.

Also, it doesnt fall outside of regulation. It is still within regulation. Timebar rules are set by the regulator.

ou’ve explained that you felt pressured into changing your account and that you didn’t need or use the benefits. From the information I’ve seen, your Advantage Gold account was sold in June 2003 – more than six years before you first made your complaint. I also think you should reasonably have known you had a reason to complain more than three years before you did – so unfortunately your complaint falls outside the three-year time limit as well.

That is a fair response. Someone who feels they were pressured into a sale wouldnt normally take 13 years to complain about it. It is a complaint without evidence. Someone complaining within weeks or months about it is highly credible. Someone complaining over a decade later just looks like an opportunistic complaint.

do I just have accept their decision??

Their response is correct based on what you have said. It is not unsurprising. The complaints stats are showing that only 13% of complaints about packaged accounts are successful. You could try court but there are no known court cases on this and the same defence could be argued in court and you would suffer the same lack of credibility with no evidence to back up your allegation.

dlh67

After reading about the Natwest Advantage Gold charges on your site I helped my partner to reclaim all the bank charges he had paid. Following the death of his father he had to open an account to pay in insurance cheques and was sold this account was the only one that was available. About six weeks later he received a letter with every penny reimbursed as well as interest on top.

If we had not seen your site mentioning this specific account we would never have known. Thank you so much.

RobbieD1506

Just thought I'd let you know of another success story...

Put in a claim about 5 weeks ago, spoke to a lady on the phone several weeks later to clarify info (she was defending natwest quite a lot but you just need to stand your ground if you know you've been missold). 3 days later I had £2400 refunded into my account. If you've never used the benefits and think you were missold (mine waS a pushy salesman when I was earning a shoddy amount in the early 2000s, didn't have a car or mobile and still lived with my parents) then def go for it!

astravanman

Well done on the refund. Ours was refused on the time-bar issue as it was over 6 years and they claim to have sent a "refresher pack" more than 3 years before we raised a complained so should have been aware we could complain sooner. We can honestly not recall receiving one but there you go, took it to fos who sided with the bank. The sale of our advantage gold account was conducted at the private home address of a friend of a friend who's partner worked for the bank and a clear case of mis-selling but because of the time-bar issue the circumstances surrounding the mis-selling wasn't relevant anymore.

dunstonh

astravanman wrote: »

Well done on the refund. Ours was refused on the time-bar issue as it was over 6 years and they claim to have sent a "refresher pack" more than 3 years before we raised a complained so should have been aware we could complain sooner. We can honestly not recall receiving one but there you go, took it to fos who sided with the bank. The sale of our advantage gold account was conducted at the private home address of a friend of a friend who's partner worked for the bank and a clear case of mis-selling but because of the time-bar issue the circumstances surrounding the mis-selling wasn't relevant anymore.

The reason the banks have been successful in rejecting most packaged bank account complaints is that many have been issuing annual benefit statements. They can look a little like marketing to some people. So, perhaps you ignored them. However, these tell you what your account does and what it offers and how much it costs you and the ability to change if you dont want that account.

The time bar is to prevent abuse of the complaints system by opportunistic try-it-ons. i.e. people who have no grounds for complaint and just wait until they get to a point and try-it-on in the hope of getting lucky. Or for people that had no problem with what they had or paying until some website told them that they could a refund by putting in a complaint.

astravanman

dunstonh wrote: »

The reason the banks have been successful in rejecting most packaged bank account complaints is that many have been issuing annual benefit statements. They can look a little like marketing to some people. So, perhaps you ignored them. However, these tell you what your account does and what it offers and how much it costs you and the ability to change if you dont want that account.

The time bar is to prevent abuse of the complaints system by opportunistic try-it-ons. i.e. people who have no grounds for complaint and just wait until they get to a point and try-it-on in the hope of getting lucky. Or for people that had no problem with what they had or paying until some website told them that they could a refund by putting in a complaint.

Yeah we did get a copy of what they claim to have sent and it was indistinguishable from standard marketing spam mail so we may well have received it as they claim but binned it as junk. I did argue the point with FOS that the refresher pack highlighted the benefits of the account and contained nothing regarding mis-selling or my rights to make a complaint if I believe the account was missold. I argued that in order for the 3 year clock to start the customer must be aware that they have personally suffered and the refresher pack contains nothing regarding that. In our case it was always known that the insurances would be useless but had to be taken in order to secure the loan/overdraft. None of the normal banking procedures were followed in this case, the deal was done at the bank employees own home as a you scratch my back to help my sales targets and I'll scratch yours by providing the loan/overdraft.

dunstonh

I did argue the point with FOS that the refresher pack highlighted the benefits of the account and contained nothing regarding mis-selling or my rights to make a complaint if I believe the account was missold.

I argued that in order for the 3 year clock to start the customer must be aware that they have personally suffered and the refresher pack contains nothing regarding that.

There is no reason for them to tell you about your rights to make a complaint. That is only required when it is an instructed review of products (such as a S166 review) or they believe you were mis-sold. Packaged bank accounts actually have a low uphold rate on complaints (13% for 2015).

In our case it was always known that the insurances would be useless but had to be taken in order to secure the loan/overdraft. None of the normal banking procedures were followed in this case, the deal was done at the bank employees own home as a you scratch my back to help my sales targets and I'll scratch yours by providing the loan/overdraft.

Whilst that did go on, it is impossible to prove in most cases. Unprovable allegations usually fail (on that particular point although some find other reasons to get upheld). However, the timebar makes this all irrelevant.

Personally, I do think the banks got lucky on this one. They only started issuing annual benefit statements about 5 years ago. Had the claims companies or this site been targeting it earlier, they would not have been able to rely on the timebar. However, it could also be argued that the timebar has done the job it was intended to do.

Tubbster

A success story...
Used the Resolver tool on this website on Saturday to complain about been mis-sold a Natwest Advantage Gold account after my student account expired. Was told it was my only option to get an overdraft. Opened this account in 2010, and closed it 4 months ago after seeing Martin Lewis on TV. I got a phone call yesterday morning (Tuesday) from Natwest to confirm details of the claim. Yesterday afternoon I looked at my bank balance to discover £958.66 refund had been put in! I had been worried I wouldn't get anything as I had claimed once on the mobile insurance and had used the breakdown recovery once that came with the packaged account. So if that is a similar worry about claiming, do it anyway! I'm so glad I did!