I am taking vodafone to court - my story.

NFH

fib_112358 wrote: »

I managed to demonstrate to the magistrate

This is not a criminal trial in a magistrates' court, but a civil claim in the Small Claims track of the County Court. It was most probably a district judge.

Also make sure that you address judges correctly if you want them on your side: https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/what-do-i-call-judge/

chanz4

how can you claim for the other lines, as they would have a valid contract for them?


Also are you a sole trader?

fib_112358

Update: I had the second directions hearing today and my case was struck out.
The reason:
1. VF had already paid back the £700 they charged me in error
2. My claim for cancelation charges on the other lines I wanted to cancel had not been incurred so there was no actual loss (makes sense)
3. My claim for time spent is not supported by any remedy within the small claims court - especially as the contract with VF explicitly states that they will not be liable for time spent, even if they are at fault.

SO basically you can only claim tangible losses in the small claims court and time spent is pretty much impossible to claim for, regardless of whether you are a limited company, sole trader or consumer - as the VF contract excludes this.

The barrister defending VF asked the court to award him costs of £350 for today's hearing but this was declined. The judge was very friendly and helpful, but the barrister was a bit rude which was disappointing - big fish in a small county court I guess..

So to sum up this whole experience, I took VF to court, and this prompted them into action and the lawyers they outsource to helped me rectify the errors that had been on my account for over 6 months in a matter of weeks. (Positive)

Then VF offered to settle out of court by paying my court fees of £380 plus £50 good will. Through negotiation with the lawyers I got the offer up to £150 goodwill. (Positive)

I decided instead to have a go at the small claims court, as much out of interest as anything else, and I attended 2 directions hearings but then hit a brick wall. (Negative)

The small claims court process is full of intricate and obscure precesses which are hard to keep up with if you are just playing it by ear. It was probably lucky I didn't get sucked into a court case as you can be forced to pay the other sides costs if you loose and are found to have been frivolous in using the courts improperly.

What I should have done is gone direct to the ombudsman as they can mediate in disputes for free with VF and this may result in "good will" compensation for time spent. Also there is no expectation you will understand complicated legal processes. However the ombudsman seems less exciting than taking VF to court - I have enjoyed the ride.

SO my next step is to try the ombusman service. They have agreed to investigate my case now that it is no longer in the small claims track. I will keep you posted how that goes..

chanz4

I can see Vodafone defending and using the courts judgement

mobilejunkie

Lots of errors. You DID fight a court case - though you had no chance. It cost you a fair amount to do so, which you haven't got back. I doubt the Ombudsman can look at your cxase now that you have taken legal action.

An unfair term can be overturned by the court - so if they decided the not liable for consequencial loss term was unfair it could be ignored. However, as has been pointed out many times, you aren't going to get those sort of costs in the small claims court.

As for the complexities of the small claims court; I've used it many times and (apart from the time I did use a solicitor) it was very straightforward and I always won. That's because I was sure of my ground each time, had the evidence and whether they turned up (1 case they didn't) sent a manager or employed a barrister I always put them to the sword.

K4LPS

fib_112358 wrote: »

Update: I had the second directions hearing today and my case was struck out.
The reason:
1. VF had already paid back the £700 they charged me in error
2. My claim for cancelation charges on the other lines I wanted to cancel had not been incurred so there was no actual loss (makes sense)
3. My claim for time spent is not supported by any remedy within the small claims court - especially as the contract with VF explicitly states that they will not be liable for time spent, even if they are at fault.

SO basically you can only claim tangible losses in the small claims court and time spent is pretty much impossible to claim for, regardless of whether you are a limited company, sole trader or consumer - as the VF contract excludes this.

The barrister defending VF asked the court to award him costs of £350 for today's hearing but this was declined. The judge was very friendly and helpful, but the barrister was a bit rude which was disappointing - big fish in a small county court I guess..

So to sum up this whole experience, I took VF to court, and this prompted them into action and the lawyers they outsource to helped me rectify the errors that had been on my account for over 6 months in a matter of weeks. (Positive)

Then VF offered to settle out of court by paying my court fees of £380 plus £50 good will. Through negotiation with the lawyers I got the offer up to £150 goodwill. (Positive)

I decided instead to have a go at the small claims court, as much out of interest as anything else, and I attended 2 directions hearings but then hit a brick wall. (Negative)

The small claims court process is full of intricate and obscure precesses which are hard to keep up with if you are just playing it by ear. It was probably lucky I didn't get sucked into a court case as you can be forced to pay the other sides costs if you loose and are found to have been frivolous in using the courts improperly.

What I should have done is gone direct to the ombudsman as they can mediate in disputes for free with VF and this may result in "good will" compensation for time spent. Also there is no expectation you will understand complicated legal processes. However the ombudsman seems less exciting than taking VF to court - I have enjoyed the ride.

SO my next step is to try the ombusman service. They have agreed to investigate my case now that it is no longer in the small claims track. I will keep you posted how that goes..

Firstly, thank you for writing the whole story, this is extremely helpful. I've issued Vodafone with a court summons as well and to be honest even though I've read your experience with the small claims court, I am still going to go ahead with the hearing (unless they settle in advance) because it costs Vodafone an absolute bomb to defend themselves and I'm happy to spend a few hundred pounds and my time making life difficult for them.

mobilejunkie

You know what they say about someone whose money is easily parted from them...

NFH

fib_112358 wrote: »

The barrister defending VF asked the court to award him costs of £350 for today's hearing but this was declined.

It was probably lucky I didn't get sucked into a court case as you can be forced to pay the other sides costs if you loose and are found to have been frivolous in using the courts improperly.

It is very unusual for either side to successfully claim costs from the other in the Small Claims track of the County Court. You would end up paying the other side's costs only if you appeal.

Barristers will ask for all kinds of things such as costs, even if they know they have almost zero chance of success, just in case they are lucky enough to get a judge who is sympathetic.

Buzby

Not so - the loser always pays.... if the winner forgets to claim costs, that is his lookout. I went the full distance with Royal Mail, but lost. Thwy wanted their (capped) costs of £280, and told the court their actual costs were in 4 figures. :rotfl:

The judge refused, stating that he felt their actions were less than honourable, and the crown immunity clause they relied upon was not conjucive to swift resolutions. He ordered we were all responsible for our own costs :T

NFH

Buzby wrote: »

Not so - the loser always pays.... if the winner forgets to claim costs, that is his lookout.

You are wrong. See the Civil Procedure Rules rule 27.14, which lists the costs that can be awarded. In most circumstances this allows only for the court fee to be paid by the losing party.