IP tracking against data protection act

frugal_mike

Scarpacci wrote: »

Maybe I'm misreading your post or meaning, but you seem to be suggesting Neustar has generated a list of people who've used TOR and then connected that somehow to the IP all these people are using today to allow companies to block people on the lfy? That would seem quite hard to do. The whole point of TOR is the end party wouldn't know who's visiting their site. So they would have no way to link it back to an IP address at that time - let alone months down the line when the IP address has likely changed.

I don't think Neustar has compiled a list of actual IP addresses of users of TOR. What they probably have done is compiled a list of TOR exit Nodes by location. That would be very easy to do. They then sell Camelot a list of exit Nodes in the UK. Camelot then blacklist these IP Addresses because there is a chance it might actually be a TOR user outside of the UK.

SnowTiger

visidigi wrote: »

Something isn't right, unless you're on a static IP how is banning the IP given via DHCP going to help them?

They can't prove you were the user of that IP that had the activity on TOR or not.

To be honest...the national lottery website is fine when it works, get it wrong and their support is a waste of space.

Isn't the problem that the OP attempted to access their National Lottery account via an IP address that's associated with TOR and their account has now frozen their account?

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

2Jakes wrote: »

Recently I have become aware of something that I find disconcerting.

For several days last week I couldn't get access to my account of the National Lottery Site that claimed that I was outside of UK.

On the last occasion I made sure that I was not using a proxy/VPN or anything else and when I got the same page I checked my IP's location which was located in UK although leased out of a BT centre in Scotland (I was in England).

So I called Camelot's customer service who were extremely rude and ignorant. Then when I tried to explain that I was getting the same thing on my Iphone on my WiFi that never had a proxy or VPN installed on it, they put the phone down on me.

So, I called BT and checked to see if they had placed an "annonymizer" on my account as Camelot claimed. As I expected they said no. So I complained to Camelot and after a lot of evasion they finally told me that Neustar whom they use to check the IPs' locations had recorded me as having been on TOR network at some previous date and therefore blacklisted the IP!!

I didn't think it was legal for people like Neustar to keep such records and even worse allow their clients to use them as filters to regulate people's access to web sites. I had been on TOR quite a while back but for nothing illegal & besides that should be no one's business except that of the police or intelligent services in possession of a court order and certainly not used by or disclosed to a third party in this manner.

This is exactly why such records shouldn't be kept as they get used for the wrong reasons and result in totally inaccurate conclusions.

Why should I be blacklisted for having been on TOR network anyway? Why should anyone know that I had been on TOR network specially a private company?

Furthermore Camelot is now trying to insinuate that I was doing something wrong instead of admitting to their mistake and changing the way they check IP locations or blacklists on top apologizing for having caused a breach of my privacy as well as having been rude, evasive and hiding behind deceptive technical jargon.

Where does the Data Protection Act 1988 stands on this issue. Are such practices lawful?

Thanks

For the record

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

BoP now interrupts for the hard of reading.

OP has been banned by Camlot for wasting their time.

OP uses a anonymiser to hide their ISP location on the Internet thingy, hence, they think their web use, from prying eyes. This works in some cases with certain websites, such as file sharing and tv sites.

While doing so, some sites, that check your ISP location, go allow access, block users where ISP location cannot be determined. Such sites are betting and gambling ones. It appears that OP tried to connect to the national lottery using this anonymiser and was blocked and subsequently banned. Camelot state that to use their site, you have to be located in the UK or IOM.

Now, for the record, OP thinks thy can hide their activity by using an anonymiser from their ISP. Wrong, while ISPs allow thier use, all access request do go hrough their firewall,to protect their network from adverse behaviour. Don't believe me op, who says their on BT?

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/47860/kw/categorisation%40/c/346,6679,6684

Hmmm, now there is a thought!

Now, why does OP need that anomyniser? Naughty boy!

2Jakes

I am not sure if you are being flippant or not?
"I don't think your IP address is of any interest to the Data Protection Act." Doesn't even make sense.
1-IP belongs to the ISP who leases it either as static or dynamic IP. So when people say my IP it means when that IP was assigned to me.
2- Camelot obviously don't mind having me as a customer as they unblocked the access. The point is that they got it wrong. They added 2 & 2 and got five.
3-keeping records of IP's that have been on TOR network in itself shouldn't be legal. This is the whole point of the snooper charter.
Once IP's are kept and assigned attributes (like its user connected to TOR), Then it can be used for tracking people. That is fine but as long as it is used by people who are authorized by the courts to do it. But it shouldn't be kept just in case some times in future some one (a fascist (foreign or not) government, or a paranoid police man) might want to find out who used to TOR and punish them collectively.
4-And more importantly it shouldn't be disclosed to a third party for other purposes or based on any of its given attributes.
5-If IP's can't be used to identify individuals then why Camelot is using them along with TOR value to stop people access to their accounts.
6-IPs can be used to pretend to be somewhere else other that where you actually are but to black list an IP because it's holder was on TOR is not only unreliable but it is also prejudicial to the person's civil liberty.
TOR is not just used for illegal activities. Security people as well as underground movements use it as well as lots of other people. Otherwise it would have been made illegal which isn't. Lots of people in China, Iran and other places use it to send out information anonymously or obtain sites whose access has been banned by their governments.

2Jakes

If only your understanding of the technicalities was wrong I would have considered correcting them.
I was worried that my initial post was too long but responding to you would just take too long. So thanks for your input but none of your assumptions are correct.

2Jakes

unholyangel wrote: »

Remember though, personal data is anything which could be used to single out an individual from a group either on its own or together with information either already in the possession of or likely to come into the possession of the data controller.

While an IP on its own cant identify an individual, the information required to open an account on national lottery website is - and due to OP's IP being linked with his account, there is a very strong possibility imo that the IP is personal data.

Quite, it doesn't matter that IP is a personal data or not. I think it is the way that it has been used which has caused a breach of my privacy.
On top of that Camelot didn't say that I was blocked because I connected to TOR. In fact they unblocked me even before they knew that.
Furthermore if Camelot wants to prohibit access to people who have used TOR then they should say so and give their reasons.
People have totally the wrong idea of TOR anyway and there are much easier way of anonymizing one's IP.
But my point is: that sort of data shouldn't be collected in the first place and/or passed on to a third party willy nilly and people who say the Camelot has the right to risk assess people using information collected without persons knowledge don't seem to care that those information could be inaccurate as on this occasion or even fabricated by anyone with a bit of technical knowledge.

2Jakes

First of all Camelot claims that they do that on the fly. So Neustar has either mistakenly or correctly associated an IP that was once assigned to me with the use of TOR network at some point in the past.
As I said Camelot has never claimed that my account was blocked because of it. In fact they unblocked it before that. But this is not the point.
The point is that Neustar is collecting data on people and keeping those records for long periods of time & third parties are using that data to regulate our access without our knowledge.
It is one thing for Tesco to know that I prefer one type of pasta over another and try to sell me suitable pasta sauces.
It is quite another thing to collect this sort of Data based on IPs. They are demonstrably unreliable for start. What is disconcerting is: Why should anyone care that I was on TOR network? If being on equates with criminality or illegality then prohibiting access to it is a matter for the Law.

frugal_mike

Camelot won't care that you personally have used the TOR network, they care that the IP address you were accessing from has been used by a TOR exit node so they now no longer trust that traffic from that address originated in the UK.

I fully agree that that is not a reliable way to make that determination, but I doubt that they are trying to block UK customers that have used TOR.

2Jakes

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth wrote: »

BoP now interrupts for the hard of reading.

OP has been banned by Camlot for wasting their time.

OP uses a anonymiser to hide their ISP location on the Internet thingy, hence, they think their web use, from prying eyes. This works in some cases with certain websites, such as file sharing and tv sites.

While doing so, some sites, that check your ISP location, go allow access, block users where ISP location cannot be determined. Such sites are betting and gambling ones. It appears that OP tried to connect to the national lottery using this anonymiser and was blocked and subsequently banned. Camelot state that to use their site, you have to be located in the UK or IOM.

Now, for the record, OP thinks thy can hide their activity by using an anonymiser from their ISP. Wrong, while ISPs allow thier use, all access request do go hrough their firewall,to protect their network from adverse behaviour. Don't believe me op, who says their on BT?

"link removed"

Hmmm, now there is a thought!

Now, why does OP need that anomyniser? Naughty boy!

1-Camelot hasn't banned OP. They reinstated my access as soon as they found out that they were wrong.
2- OP is not wasting Camelot's time. He is trying to find out why Camelot avoided answering him & why the claim of anonymization by ISP was not confirmed by BT. OP did make sure that all proxies, VPN and GAMES that use anonymizers were switched off and no relevant cookies were live.
3- Being blocked for using anonymizer is not the same thing as being black listed for using TOR (legally) based on IP identification.
4- Camelot admitted that the OP was in UK and his IP was correctly located in UK but still insisted that OP was using an anonymiser.
5-TOR is not just for illegal activity. All sorts of people use TOR, including security services and companies as well as underground movements abroad and here so that unless there is a court order to identify them they won't be identified.
It is none of anyone business how naughty I am or have been specially that of Camelot unless there are grounds for suspicion that just having been on TOR is not one of them.