I want to sue Orange - best way?

Quentin

Collabora wrote: »

SO CISAS IS WRONG THEN

http://www.cisas.org.uk/FrequentlyAskedQuestions-11_e.html

No.


You are wrong.


You selectively posted an extract from the answer to FAQ 5, and chose to omit the sentence following the one you quoted!

If more than eight weeks has passed since you told the company of your problem and you have still not had your complaint resolved to your satisfaction, you may then come direct to us.

Anoneemoose

In order to sue, I would assume (but IANAL so cannot be sure), you would have to provable losses AND have mitigated those losses. This would probably include buying a cheap phone to use while Orange were sorting out the proof of usage. They send a replacement SIM within 5 days usually so there was nothing stopping you using your air time.

As for your insurance company, why can't you process the claim now? Surely the fact that Orange have now confirmed what they requested means they can now process your claim.

I worked in the Orange insurance dept for about 18 months and never came across an insurance company that would not process the claim once the relevant details had been provided.

If you have confirmation of the fact that your insurance company will not process or pay out on the claim BECAUSE of Orange's delay, then you may be able to claim for the cost of a replacement phone. Loss of business though, you have no chance.

If you have already complained to them officially, then contact CISAS. As Silk says, you can do this after 8 weeks of first raising the complaint without the need for a deadlock.

You can contact OFCOM but they do not deal with individual cases, they will refer you to the EE Exec office. I imagine the Exec office will want the proof that I mentioned earlier before offering anything.

Nodding_Donkey

Collabora wrote: »

I stand corrected, but still they would have to get a deadlock letter/email from Orange (which Orange wont give unless the complaint has not been resolved in an 8 week period) and as soon as they get that they can contact CISAS and once CISAS has the application and provided its valid they give the provider 14 days to respond

http://www.cisas.org.uk/CustomerInformation-4_e.html

The bold bit is wrong also. When I had a problem with Orange I had an email within 14 days stating "and that is our final position"

CISAS accepted that as deadlock.

d123

Collabora wrote: »

THATS WHAT I SAID



ORANGE WONT GIVE THE DEADLOCK LETTER UNTIL THE COMPLAINT IS 8 WEEKS OLD WITHOUT BEING RESOLVED.

SO CISAS IS WRONG THEN

http://www.cisas.org.uk/FrequentlyAskedQuestions-11_e.html

Once again you are wrong, I received a deadlock email from EE after 5 weeks (because, believe it or not, the matter was at deadlock) and I proceeded to take the complaint to CISAS at the 5 week mark (and won).

If EE won't issue the deadlock document then you have to wait 8 weeks, at 8 weeks you no longer need a deadlock document, as Silk has said.

I once heard a very good modern proverb.
A little googled knowledge is dangerous for the ignorant searcher.

mobilejunkie

I agree entirely. I've taken them to CISAS twice without a deadlock letter - and won hands down.

macman

grumbler wrote: »

A bill doesn't prove that the handset in question was used.
Why would the insurance company care about DD or the phone number? What they want is IMEI.

Which most people keep a record of anyway?

grumbler

Yes, but without a proof of purchase (or maybe even with the proof) they want a proof that this phone has been recently used by the customer.

Brian_Surgeon

Thanks for responses.

Yes, it was a proof of purchase or proof of usage document which was required, something that specifically linked that handset to me. I now have that document, as I say, but too late. The insurance claim would have provided me with a direct replacement handset (iphone) minus 50 quid excess. That's what I want to claim from Orange value of an iphone 4 minus excess, call it £150. To my mind that's being very reasonable and not trying to claim for loss of earnings due to missed calls and wasted time.

Yes, I could have bought a cheap temporary phone. But my situation is complicated cos I'm mainly working in France at the moment. So kept thinking situation was sorted, only to get back to UK and find there was nothing waiting for me in post as promised. And no, Orange did not send out a replacement SIM, despite promising they would do that straight away as well.

I suppose now I have the document, I could make the insurance claim, late, and then sell one of the handsets. But why should it be me that has to go through all the extra hassle? I've been an Orange customer for many years, and they've treated me with contempt. They couldn't even manage to write an email expressing an apology in any way. I'm a businessman, and if I dealt with my customers in this way I would expect to be punched. If they say they are going to do something, why can they not be held to account to honour their commitment?

Anoneemoose

Brian_Surgeon wrote: »

Thanks for responses.

Yes, it was a proof of purchase or proof of usage document which was required, something that specifically linked that handset to me. I now have that document, as I say, but too late. The insurance claim would have provided me with a direct replacement handset (iphone) minus 50 quid excess. That's what I want to claim from Orange value of an iphone 4 minus excess, call it £150. To my mind that's being very reasonable and not trying to claim for loss of earnings due to missed calls and wasted time.

Yes, I could have bought a cheap temporary phone. But my situation is complicated cos I'm mainly working in France at the moment. So kept thinking situation was sorted, only to get back to UK and find there was nothing waiting for me in post as promised. And no, Orange did not send out a replacement SIM, despite promising they would do that straight away as well.

I suppose now I have the document, I could make the insurance claim, late, and then sell one of the handsets. But why should it be me that has to go through all the extra hassle? I've been an Orange customer for many years, and they've treated me with contempt. They couldn't even manage to write an email expressing an apology in any way. I'm a businessman, and if I dealt with my customers in this way I would expect to be punched. If they say they are going to do something, why can they not be held to account to honour their commitment?

I see what you're saying and I don't disagree with your sentiments BUT if you are still able to claim under your insurance, you are better doing this. As you are still able to do this as you would have anyway, you have technically not lost out on the iPhone 4.

Unless you can prove categorically that the delay caused by Orange now means you are unable to receive a replacement phone under your insurance, I doubt you will get far. Again, I am not 100%, but I am sure a judge would want to see proof of this too so court would probably be a no go.

Another thing - a proof of purchase and proof of usage is different (not that it should have taken so long to send either) - proof of purchase can only be given to you by the people you bought the phone off so if it was another retailer (like CPW), you would have needed to go to them for that. Orange can provide a proof of usage in these circumstances, which basically says make/model/imei. Was used on (mobile number) between (two dates), last recorded use on (date), reported lost/stolen and barred blacklisted on (date).

So, how long did it take for you to receive your replacement SIM and is it possible it turned up prior to you actually getting it because you were in France.

Unfortunately, your opinion of "why should it be you who goes through the extra hassle" in relation to buying a cheap phone, will let you down, I believe. Again, this would have been mitigating your losses. And it isn't Orange's fault you were out of the country either.

Admittedly the delay is not good service, but I do not believe you will get very far with this based on what you have said.

Brian_Surgeon

Absolutely, me being out of the country was not Orange's fault. I never recieved a replacement SIM, had to go into an EE shop to get one. I had purchased the lost handset via Orange. No idea why such a document is necessary for the insurance claim, as I had registered the handset including IMEI number and date of purchase already with the insurance company, but I guess they just like documents.

My point is - what was I supposed to do, having gone round the circle 3 times, each time for the result to be zero? How many times as a customer is one expected to sit up and beg and jump through hoops, in the hope that maybe, just maybe, this time you might get a bone?
I may have the document now that I have mentioned a threat of court action, but at the point when I decided to buy a replacement phone, why on earth should I have contacted Orange again? They'd proved conclusively that they didn't give a toss and would not or could not respond.
And why is this not something that a company, which presumably has a 'customer service' ethos, would be prepared to enter into discussion about and at least apologise for?