Sending money to the wrong bank account

windup

the very simple approach outlined would stop 99.999% of them, and the coding involved is trivial.

grumbler

colsten wrote: »

Unfortunately it is not, as there are literally infinite numbers of ways to spell an account holder's name.

windup wrote: »

Could be solved easily by introducing a checksum or checkdigits by hashing the, sort code, and account number together, eventually with the name, the user can be alerted to the error before they hit go. If they don't hash the name, then only the front end of a banks website needs changing.

Checksum is being used already for account numbers, but is ignored by some banks (BSs?) because of the lack of 8-digit combinations available.

The only way is to make the account numbers 10-digit (at least) or indeed make the name (or its part - like for driving licenses) a part of the valid combination.
I don't see any problem with spelling as it has just to be determined when opening an account and then used correctly as a part of a unique alpha-numerical combination unique for every account.

windup

to guarantee it goes to the correct recipient, the checksum would have to be based on account number and sort code.

colsten

Is anybody seriously suggesting that human error can be eliminated?

windup

The point is to stop accidental one number mistakes, that can be done easily and is far better than just avoiding the issue, 3 letter alphanumeric checksum has 46000 combinations

colsten

windup wrote: »

The point is to stop accidental one number mistakes, that can be done easily and is far better than just avoiding the issue

Most, if not all, banks already protect people from number mistakes. For example, it is impossible to send a Faster Payment to a non-existent combination of sort code and account number.

Not sure which number mistakes that you refer to can be done easily.

windup wrote: »

..... is far better than just avoiding the issue

can you elaborate, please? How can anything at all be better than avoiding the issue?

windup

what dont you understand, you want to send me some money, to do that you need to supply the account number, the sort code, and a three letter checksum which is derived from the 2 numbers

If you put the wrong 3 letter checksum in (or the wrong sort code, or the wrong account number), your internet banking system tells you you've made a mistake and rejects it before it is sent, at which point you contact the payee and check the numbers or check what you've entered. The bank system does not have to check the name is correct, does not need to know the spelling, does not have to go through the process of bouncing, does not have to be updated with tons of code. The system could be implemented and made optional for x no of years until all the checksums for existing transactions have been entered, giving protection to those who wanted it straight away

1 mistaken transfer avoided, chance of guessing correct checksum, 1 in 46000, or with more characters 1 in 1.5 million, 1 in 60 million and so on.

compare that to what happens now, a lot of hassle and worry, no guarantee of getting the money back

checksums are used constantly to avoid computer errors, they can also be used to avoid human error.

The advantage of this kind of solution, is that all that needs to be changed is the create a payee screen with a couple of extra lines of code to multiply sort code with the account number and compare it with the entered checksum, the backend and interbank systems don't have to change. Add the checksum to everyones statement, and it's done.

Ed-1

Well I got in a muddle tonight sending money between my own current accounts...

Turned out I'd closed the account on my payee list that I'd sent the money to (I didn't think to check as it was in my name and I'd sent a payment to it previously), expected it to bounce back into the account I'd sent it from and it didn't. Rang the bank who said the payment had been accepted. Rang the bank where the payment had been sent who confirmed the account was closed. Totally confused myself as no-one knew what had happened to the payment. Started thinking all doom and gloom such as had the account number been reallocated to someone else - plugged the details into on online verifier and it confirmed it was able to receive payments. Then I suddenly realised what had happened. The account that was closed had been switched out to a different bank and the payment had bounced onto the account that I'd switched it into. Only trouble was with all these switches I couldn't remember where I'd switched it to! Anyway, after logging into all my online bankings the payment was sitting safely in First Direct!

badger09

Ed-1 wrote: »

Well I got in a muddle tonight sending money between my own current accounts...

Embarrassed to admit, I did something similar earlier this week .

I thought I'd creamed off around £40 'useful DD deposits' from Tesco and sent it to Nationwide FlexDirect (1). I checked several times during the day and it hadn't arrived. I decided it must have been held up for 'security' checks, but when it hadn't arrived by the following evening, I investigated more thoroughly and realised I had sent it to an old FlexDirect (4) which had been switched to Halifax. It was sitting there wondering where it was going next :rotfl:

I'd forgotten to amend the payee account name but I wish it was possible to delete payees from my Tesco accounts. I've tried several times and get a message that I must cancel a scheduled payment first. The only scheduled payments are from the 'switcher' accounts, which also appear on the list in their own right:cool:

dggar

windup wrote: »

Could be solved easily by introducing a checksum or checkdigits by hashing the, sort code, and account number together, eventually with the name, the user can be alerted to the error before they hit go. If they don't hash the name, then only the front end of a banks website needs changing.

eg multiply sort x account number, checksum = last 5 digits of answer. if that doesn't match what has been supplied by the destination bank, alarm bells should ring.

If I use a valid sort code and a valid( but incorrect ) account number I don't see how the check sum generated will be invalid.


At what point in the process the destination bank supply something to match