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my MCZ wood pellet biomass boiler
nostrawaggus
Posts: 32 Forumite
Hi All,
just thought I'd add my biomass experiences to this thread.
A year ago we changed from an old 15 year old oil boiler (from previous owners of our property) to biomass pellet system.
Hope the following provides a little help.
We had a MCZ Red Compact 35 biomass installed with a separate 200L heatbank upstairs located in the 1st floor airing cupboard to replace the old oil boiler and accumulator installation. The flue in our existing chimney was sized, lined and insulated by the installer.
The boiler has an integrated hopper and screw feed at the back with accommodates roughly 90kg - 100kg of pellets which can be loaded via 10kg bags. The system can be adapted for a blow feeding system, but our installer recommended we don't go down this route as it would greatly increase the installation costs and would be slight overkill for our domestic requirements.
Whilst the installation to replace our old oil system was not cheap, I was adamant to replace our oil technology for a greener, cheaper fuel system and the installer we chose was knowledgable and had experience in stove and biomass systems.
We've had the new hardware (and this home) for a year now and have just experienced our first winter with our new central heating. It has to be said we are not fully moved into our home yet as the bathrooms and kitchen need updating/replacing and are pending the relevant planning approvals. We are using the system for our CH and HW, but currently only few adhoc showers and no bath usage.
Insulation:
Our home is a 16th century listed 5 bed 2 bath timber framed farmhouse, which has had bits of building added on over time, with varying grades of differing insulation, some areas notably having nothing - measured in today's standards. We are limited in what we can really do.
Generally, the ground floor consists of solid brick walls, with single glazed windows. The solid brick flooring is pretty cold, in terms of just dirt being underneath. 1st floor is timber framed and side tile hung. In newer added-on parts, there is rock wool and PIR boards behind the hung tiles (unprofessionally installed I may add), but the main part of the building has lovely traditional building methods which cannot be updated.
We are insulating the pitched & exposed rafter roof as best as possible, but luckily this had been renovated in the 80's so the roof structure does have a (modern) insulation 7-layer aluminium sheet/felt 'drape' system on the outer side of the rafters under the roof tiles. Thank god.
We are draught proofing the building as best we can and this is an ongoing project.
Our installer seemed very knowledgeable and insisted that we have our flue lined and insulated to accommodate the new boiler. He recommended the MCZ Red Compact as they had good national parts back up by Specflue. He also recommended the heat bank as this would provide future insertion points for solar (and other complimentary green technologies) as well as hot water storage that can be called on without the boiler needing to fire up every time.
Usage Trend:
I use Woodlets or Verdos and have the pellets delivered on pallet by the tonne, storing them in our (large) garage.
Over this winter in December, we've had some cold days of temperature averaging out between -2 and +4 during day/night. Pellet usage at about 3 to 5 x 10Kg bags of pellets over a 24hr period to provide almost constant HW and cosy CH.
In summer this consumption is reduced to about 1-2 bags over a 24 hr period.
I expect our pellet usage to reduce somewhat as and when our home's insulation is improved, given our listed building circumstances.
We have to empty our ash container approximately every 48hrs during winter load, and every 3-5 days during summer load.
MCZ Red Compact 35 Boiler:
Overall I am pretty happy with the biomass system. I believe it is adequately sized for our requirements and it delivers the heat and water power when required, given the build nature of our house. It’s a bit on the big side in terms of dimensions, but we have a dedicated boiler room so this is not a worry for me.
At around 250hrs of operation, the boiler MCB glitched somehow and the system counters (operation hours, ignition counters) reset themselves back to zero. I called our installer about this, but it was played down and left. The boiler still functioned normally, allbeit with a ‘clean' clock. Is this Italian electronic build quality or a wrong electric wiring/short connection somewhere?
The pellet screw jammed at one point, but there was a increased build up of pellet dust at the bottom of the hopper which I attributed this to. I cleaned the hopper, reset the system and it worked. I put this issue down to a contaminated bag or two of pellets of sub standard quality.
I have let the ash pan overfill accidentally once or twice and the boiler had subsequently switched itself off (as it should do as failsafe).
I put this down to my system training.
I’ve noticed a degradation in the end of the turbulator rods. 3 of the rods have physically degraded to the extent that they have lost around 5-10cms of length. The remaining visible parts look pretty corroded on them and the others.
Our system will be receiving it’s first annual service so I will point this out to the installer to see what he says. Our system has clocked up just below 1000 hrs of operation and I’ve kept ontop of care for it, cleaning bi-weekly with hoover etc.
This morning, I noticed our heating hadn’t come on as planned.
I went to the system timer/controller to find this was dead with no lights/display. Initially I thought we may have had a power cut, but then noticed the lights still worked in the rooms. The Consumer unit downstairs had a tripped fuse, which I reset. I then checked the biomass boiler to find this had a ‘Power Blackout’ warning on the panel, which I reset. I turned the boiler on, it seemed like it was starting up and disappeared back upstairs to find that the display on the timer had no power again. This time the consumer unit fuse hadn’t blown but the fused switch connecting the boiler in the boiler room had blown.
I replaced the 3A fuse and the switch light comes back on, together with the orange control light at the back of the boiler - but there is no display or lights working on the front boiler. No life.
Currently there is no CH, although we still have hot water from the heat bank.
I’ve turned the system off and am awaiting a call back from our installer.
Practicality:
For the early adoptors of biomass technology (be it manual or automatic pellet loading), it is clear that a shift in the way you think about & organise your domestic heat and hot water, needs to be adopted.
For me, I find I am much more aware of the 'back-end' requirements when I flip that little switch to get the furnace going to heat the house.
For example, whilst the heat is still 'on-demand' per say, our biomass boiler requires approximately 45 mins from a cold and dark state (house has been empty and average temp is 10-14 degrees) to 'get-ready' to supply heat to our CH. It then requires another 30 mins approx for you to feel the heat building in the house from the rads.
This means you need to think ahead and do some basic time calculations as to when you want the heat to be available in the radiators to heat the rooms.
Of course you also need to rationalise your pellet store and when and how many you need to re-order and have your ‘goods-in’ accept the deliveries into your ‘warehouse’.
I routinely find myself going out to the boiler room to peer into the hopper bowl to see how the consumption is going. My friend who has witnessed this on several occasions jokingly says I'm always off to look at the greatest show on earth.
Filling the hopper with 100kg of pellets that I've carted over 10 meters and emptying the ash trays in the garden is no problem for me, but this may be an issue for someone who is less mobile. As such I see biomass technology not 'everyone's cup of tea' as a green alternative to fossil fuels, simply because the routine 'maintenance' side of things may be too demanding. You do need to become a little bit of an expert in your heating system and can no longer just operate it 'at arm's length' so to speak.
I feel I am more of a care-taker of this technology than I used to be with fossil fuels. You are certainly more involved and in-tune with the process of managing this technology. It becomes a part time job managing the routine for the home’s HW and CH requirements.
IMO, biomass needs to work in collaboration with alternative green sources of energy. Not sure if I would be ‘as involved’ in the heat generation process, if I had Ground or Air source heating, but then again I’m sure they have their own little nuances too.
I’m already thinking about how solar may work for us in addition to the biomass technology.
Primarily I need to make our system more ‘useable’ by employing solar to heat our water in summer months perhaps or to provide electricity generally - and thereby reducing overall pellet consumption and the refilling that goes with it.
If you have chosen or are thinking about choosing Biomass technology I would
advise to go with a reputable installer who is knowledgable, whom you trust and who will be around for the distance. There are too many cowboys around. The unit should receive an annual service just like any other device. Also, be on top of your own maintenance and servicing routine to keep the unit clean and in good working order.
As simple as it may sound, a biomass boiler is a glorified fireplace. Get the installation right and it will provide efficient service, keep it clean and tidy and it will provide reliable heat and warmth.
just thought I'd add my biomass experiences to this thread.
A year ago we changed from an old 15 year old oil boiler (from previous owners of our property) to biomass pellet system.
Hope the following provides a little help.
We had a MCZ Red Compact 35 biomass installed with a separate 200L heatbank upstairs located in the 1st floor airing cupboard to replace the old oil boiler and accumulator installation. The flue in our existing chimney was sized, lined and insulated by the installer.
The boiler has an integrated hopper and screw feed at the back with accommodates roughly 90kg - 100kg of pellets which can be loaded via 10kg bags. The system can be adapted for a blow feeding system, but our installer recommended we don't go down this route as it would greatly increase the installation costs and would be slight overkill for our domestic requirements.
Whilst the installation to replace our old oil system was not cheap, I was adamant to replace our oil technology for a greener, cheaper fuel system and the installer we chose was knowledgable and had experience in stove and biomass systems.
We've had the new hardware (and this home) for a year now and have just experienced our first winter with our new central heating. It has to be said we are not fully moved into our home yet as the bathrooms and kitchen need updating/replacing and are pending the relevant planning approvals. We are using the system for our CH and HW, but currently only few adhoc showers and no bath usage.
Insulation:
Our home is a 16th century listed 5 bed 2 bath timber framed farmhouse, which has had bits of building added on over time, with varying grades of differing insulation, some areas notably having nothing - measured in today's standards. We are limited in what we can really do.
Generally, the ground floor consists of solid brick walls, with single glazed windows. The solid brick flooring is pretty cold, in terms of just dirt being underneath. 1st floor is timber framed and side tile hung. In newer added-on parts, there is rock wool and PIR boards behind the hung tiles (unprofessionally installed I may add), but the main part of the building has lovely traditional building methods which cannot be updated.
We are insulating the pitched & exposed rafter roof as best as possible, but luckily this had been renovated in the 80's so the roof structure does have a (modern) insulation 7-layer aluminium sheet/felt 'drape' system on the outer side of the rafters under the roof tiles. Thank god.
We are draught proofing the building as best we can and this is an ongoing project.
Our installer seemed very knowledgeable and insisted that we have our flue lined and insulated to accommodate the new boiler. He recommended the MCZ Red Compact as they had good national parts back up by Specflue. He also recommended the heat bank as this would provide future insertion points for solar (and other complimentary green technologies) as well as hot water storage that can be called on without the boiler needing to fire up every time.
Usage Trend:
I use Woodlets or Verdos and have the pellets delivered on pallet by the tonne, storing them in our (large) garage.
Over this winter in December, we've had some cold days of temperature averaging out between -2 and +4 during day/night. Pellet usage at about 3 to 5 x 10Kg bags of pellets over a 24hr period to provide almost constant HW and cosy CH.
In summer this consumption is reduced to about 1-2 bags over a 24 hr period.
I expect our pellet usage to reduce somewhat as and when our home's insulation is improved, given our listed building circumstances.
We have to empty our ash container approximately every 48hrs during winter load, and every 3-5 days during summer load.
MCZ Red Compact 35 Boiler:
Overall I am pretty happy with the biomass system. I believe it is adequately sized for our requirements and it delivers the heat and water power when required, given the build nature of our house. It’s a bit on the big side in terms of dimensions, but we have a dedicated boiler room so this is not a worry for me.
At around 250hrs of operation, the boiler MCB glitched somehow and the system counters (operation hours, ignition counters) reset themselves back to zero. I called our installer about this, but it was played down and left. The boiler still functioned normally, allbeit with a ‘clean' clock. Is this Italian electronic build quality or a wrong electric wiring/short connection somewhere?
The pellet screw jammed at one point, but there was a increased build up of pellet dust at the bottom of the hopper which I attributed this to. I cleaned the hopper, reset the system and it worked. I put this issue down to a contaminated bag or two of pellets of sub standard quality.
I have let the ash pan overfill accidentally once or twice and the boiler had subsequently switched itself off (as it should do as failsafe).
I put this down to my system training.
I’ve noticed a degradation in the end of the turbulator rods. 3 of the rods have physically degraded to the extent that they have lost around 5-10cms of length. The remaining visible parts look pretty corroded on them and the others.
Our system will be receiving it’s first annual service so I will point this out to the installer to see what he says. Our system has clocked up just below 1000 hrs of operation and I’ve kept ontop of care for it, cleaning bi-weekly with hoover etc.
This morning, I noticed our heating hadn’t come on as planned.
I went to the system timer/controller to find this was dead with no lights/display. Initially I thought we may have had a power cut, but then noticed the lights still worked in the rooms. The Consumer unit downstairs had a tripped fuse, which I reset. I then checked the biomass boiler to find this had a ‘Power Blackout’ warning on the panel, which I reset. I turned the boiler on, it seemed like it was starting up and disappeared back upstairs to find that the display on the timer had no power again. This time the consumer unit fuse hadn’t blown but the fused switch connecting the boiler in the boiler room had blown.
I replaced the 3A fuse and the switch light comes back on, together with the orange control light at the back of the boiler - but there is no display or lights working on the front boiler. No life.
Currently there is no CH, although we still have hot water from the heat bank.
I’ve turned the system off and am awaiting a call back from our installer.
Practicality:
For the early adoptors of biomass technology (be it manual or automatic pellet loading), it is clear that a shift in the way you think about & organise your domestic heat and hot water, needs to be adopted.
For me, I find I am much more aware of the 'back-end' requirements when I flip that little switch to get the furnace going to heat the house.
For example, whilst the heat is still 'on-demand' per say, our biomass boiler requires approximately 45 mins from a cold and dark state (house has been empty and average temp is 10-14 degrees) to 'get-ready' to supply heat to our CH. It then requires another 30 mins approx for you to feel the heat building in the house from the rads.
This means you need to think ahead and do some basic time calculations as to when you want the heat to be available in the radiators to heat the rooms.
Of course you also need to rationalise your pellet store and when and how many you need to re-order and have your ‘goods-in’ accept the deliveries into your ‘warehouse’.
I routinely find myself going out to the boiler room to peer into the hopper bowl to see how the consumption is going. My friend who has witnessed this on several occasions jokingly says I'm always off to look at the greatest show on earth.
Filling the hopper with 100kg of pellets that I've carted over 10 meters and emptying the ash trays in the garden is no problem for me, but this may be an issue for someone who is less mobile. As such I see biomass technology not 'everyone's cup of tea' as a green alternative to fossil fuels, simply because the routine 'maintenance' side of things may be too demanding. You do need to become a little bit of an expert in your heating system and can no longer just operate it 'at arm's length' so to speak.
I feel I am more of a care-taker of this technology than I used to be with fossil fuels. You are certainly more involved and in-tune with the process of managing this technology. It becomes a part time job managing the routine for the home’s HW and CH requirements.
IMO, biomass needs to work in collaboration with alternative green sources of energy. Not sure if I would be ‘as involved’ in the heat generation process, if I had Ground or Air source heating, but then again I’m sure they have their own little nuances too.
I’m already thinking about how solar may work for us in addition to the biomass technology.
Primarily I need to make our system more ‘useable’ by employing solar to heat our water in summer months perhaps or to provide electricity generally - and thereby reducing overall pellet consumption and the refilling that goes with it.
If you have chosen or are thinking about choosing Biomass technology I would
advise to go with a reputable installer who is knowledgable, whom you trust and who will be around for the distance. There are too many cowboys around. The unit should receive an annual service just like any other device. Also, be on top of your own maintenance and servicing routine to keep the unit clean and in good working order.
As simple as it may sound, a biomass boiler is a glorified fireplace. Get the installation right and it will provide efficient service, keep it clean and tidy and it will provide reliable heat and warmth.
0
Comments
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Thanks for that, it just confirmed to me my decision to go for an Air Source Heat Pump. We are halfway through our 5th winter with it and so far it has performed faultlessly and kept us cosy and warm through the very cold winter of 2012/13
I did consider both oil & biomass but came to the conclusion that in the long run they would be both more effort and probably more expensive than the ASHP.
I have minimal maintenance, no requirement to order or store fuel and I don't even have to clean it.
Costwise I reckon I'm getting a COP of around 2.5-3 which equates to between 4-4.8p/kwh which seems to compare very favourably with the pellet costs (see other thread), oil cost and LPG. Mains gas would have been my choice if it had been available.
OK I don't get as much RHI as biomass but it's worth it for the lack of any effort on my partNever under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0 -
Yes, thanks for a balanced and objective report. We have been without central heating for the past year, relying on an air to air heat pump and a wood burning stove.
We are certainly more aware of fuel consumption and have used less wood than I forecast based on our kWh requirements – mainly because we haven't needed to light the stove until evening, whereas the heating timer would have switched the system on much earlier.
Your pellet consumption in summer sounds very high for hot water only – 10 kg of pellets gives 48 kWh of heat which is a lot when compared to typical domestic use of maybe 3-6 kWh electricity used by an immersion heater.
It sounds like you have got a lot of the biomass system decisions right – using a thermal store is kinder to the boiler's igniters. Even so there is a significant workload associated with operating a biomass boiler which is anything but a 'fit and forget' device. I would always ensure that I had a back up source of heat and hot water.0 -
As a matter of interest how much does a 10kg bag of pellets cost when you buy in bulk?
Ground source/air source heat pump and solar pv/water heating was something I was looking into as it seems a normal gas boiler, although efficient, clean and no hassle may not have so much of a long term future.0 -
As a matter of interest how much does a 10kg bag of pellets cost when you buy in bulk?
Ground source/air source heat pump and solar pv/water heating was something I was looking into as it seems a normal gas boiler, although efficient, clean and no hassle may not have so much of a long term future.
see here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5130500
This post about MCZ biomass is in the wrong forum as this one deals with Gas & Leccy and should really be in the LPG, Oil, solid & other fuels forum :- http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=78 . Perhaps someone who knows what they are doing can shift it
Although I've got a heatpump I'd rather have a mains gas combination boiler as I don't see them fading out in the near future. Unfortunately we don't have mains gas where I live.
Think carefully if you are going down the heatpump route as you do need a heating system that can benefit from the cooler running temperatures. Just bunging one on an existing system instead of a gas boiler very rarely gives a satisfactory outcome.
My one works because it was installed as part of the whole building heating system (underfloor) and I took a lot of trouble understanding the system design, how it works and how to operate it.Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0 -
As a matter of interest how much does a 10kg bag of pellets cost when you buy in bulk?
Ground source/air source heat pump and solar pv/water heating was something I was looking into as it seems a normal gas boiler, although efficient, clean and no hassle may not have so much of a long term future.
The going rate for pellets is around £2.40 for 10 kg (£240/tonne).
Most reputable installers say that if your home has mains gas then don't bother with ASHP or biomass. Solar PV linked to an electric immersion heater is worth considering as the Feed In Tariff covers the installation costs.0 -
As a matter of interest how much does a 10kg bag of pellets cost when you buy in bulk?
the pallet of Woodlets is around 258 per pallet. 98 bags.
around 2.63 ish per 10Kg.
this is from white horse energy who have been reliable and quick.
I'm sure if you bought more in one go, the c.p.u. would drop more.
But then you need somewhere to store the bulk. Although bagged, the pellets do need a certain amount of climate control of sorts to keep 'fresh' I would think.0 -
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our house has the full works as it is an eco house. PV, solar panels, pellet stove, rainwater harvesting, solar gain, supreme insulation, triple glazing, heat sink wall and floors inside etc. If I had to make just one recommendation then it would be to have the solar panels for hot water0
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@nostrawaggus thanks for a balanced report on your experience so far with a pellet boiler.
Did you claim RHI? If you did, if the RHI was not there would you have installed a pellet boiler?0 -
Silent_Dancer wrote: »Did you claim RHI? If you did, if the RHI was not there would you have installed a pellet boiler?
Yes, I have claimed RHI - you'd be an idiot not to.
I was looking at a GSHP initially - because we are rural, no gas mains and have outside area where the technology footprint could potentially be installed. I decided against this as it would have meant lots of disruption to the area and the associated cost. Plus I am of the school of thought that if most of your kit is buried, fault finding becomes a costly headache down the line should issues arise or a leak occur etc.
I looked at ASHP systems, but felt this was not suitable due to the nature of our building.
Biomass technology and wood burning stoves are established in rural and mountainous regions of Italy, Switzerland, Germany and Austria (and perhaps directly this is where the best equipment comes from IMO).
My cousin is also involved with a district heating system in Germany. Although on a much larger scale, it provides heat to the local school, the caring home and one or two other public buildings in the district.
I had a lot of positive information on biomass technology via word of mouth from the onset, which I guess helped trigger the decision to go biomass.
It was only the installer of our biomass who mentioned the RHI incentive for this technology when discussing it with him, and by then I had already more or less made up my mind. The RHI formulation at that stage still had a few uncertainties hovering over it, so although the news was good it was shrouded in some uncertainty.
We paid for our installation outright and didn't require any type of funding or installer funded options.
So, now looking back, it is a comfort to know we will be getting our RHI payments for the technology and this will cover our heating costs of the short to mid term.
UPDATE BTW on the broken COMPACT 35 system that has no power at the moment from Saturday:
It's been broken and without power since Saturday. I've had some phone calls form my installer in respects to waiting for Specflue Help Desk to get back to him about the issue, but as yet, nobody has even been to see the unit or even knows what's wrong with it by the looks of things. This underlines the value of having a reputable installer. At the moment I feel like opening the thing myself to see if there is a blown fuse inside somewhere. Not happy at all at the moment with the level of service I'm receiving for my unit which isn't working.0
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