Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

Actually, the simple way to get rid of the "enormous Barnett subsidy" is to preserve the so-called Barnett formula. In the long term, it will result in all parts of the UK getting the same per capita amount of money to spend.

Why is that please antrobus?

chewmylegoff

Come on, still more than 500 posts to go until closure. Maybe someone could post something suggesting that Scotland receives a subsidy from the rest of the UK and then Shakey can post essentially the same thing in rebuttal over and over again (but getting slightly more fanatical each time) 501 times, then the thread will be done.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

That is exactly what was agreed at the time.

The principle was clear - no detriment at the time of change.

Here's the exact clause:

95 (3): No detriment as the result of the decision to devolve further power; the Scottish and UK Governments' budgets should be no larger or smaller simply as a result of the initial transfer of tax and/or spending powers, before considering how these are used.

I've underlined the important bit.

Nowhere in the Smith report did it say Scotland should both get these taxing/spending powers and have an eternal guarantee of unlimited further subsidy should our revenue then fall at some point in the future.

The simple way to preserve the enormous Barnett subsidy is, unsurprisingly, to preserve the Barnett formula and current taxation/spending responsibilities.

It's not the Unionist/No side who asked for more control over taxes and spending and therefore caused this mess.

Yes it was. There was a lot of debate at the time about the SNP not being a part of the Smith Commission. They certainly didn't agree with the outcome of it, and every amendment they put forward to the Scotland Act voted against.

I certainly can't remember glowing accounts of Gordon Brown pacing up and down proclaiming " no detriment at the time of change." And this :-

The simple way to preserve the enormous Barnett subsidy is, unsurprisingly, to preserve the Barnett formula and current taxation/spending responsibilities.

Is exactly what WingsoverScotland has been saying for the last two years. You'll be pleased to know I'm sure. But most who've read it have been at least a year or two ahead of you in coming to that particular conclusion..

There is no formula that can guarantee Scotland won’t be left worse off even if it keeps all the tax rates that will be controlled by Holyrood the same as the rest of the UK. That’s precisely why the current funding arrangement was devised in the first place. As we said in October 2014, the key goal of the Smith Commission cannot ever be fulfilled by its stated method. We suppose we should congratulate the press on catching up eventually, even if it took them 13 months.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/if-only-someone-had-said/

However, this really doesn't look good at all does it ? Even the Daily Record are disgusted. And it was 'their' Vow.

David Clegg Verified account ‏@davieclegg "I'll do everything I can to get a deal," says Greg Hands. "Now, has anyone seen the factor 40?"

Shakethedisease

chewmylegoff wrote: »

Come on, still more than 500 posts to go until closure. Maybe someone could post something suggesting that Scotland receives a subsidy from the rest of the UK and then Shakey can post essentially the same thing in rebuttal over and over again (but getting slightly more fanatical each time) 501 times, then the thread will be done.

As we say in Scotland, away and boil yer heid man. Rebuttal is the very essence of debate. If you'd rather we got all cuddly and 100% agree with each other, murmuring 'oh yes I agree with that' every single post then debate and discussion forums just aren't for you I'm afraid. You're not suited to participating if you want everyone to agree while discussing contentious issues. And if it's just me and you don't like what I post, then that's just tough... whatever. I thought Brexit fever would've caught on here and taken over by now. But the thread is dead.

I simply bypass discussions that don't interest me. Most sensible people do so. I have absolutely no idea why someone would actually want to post on one that doesn't interest them in the slightest ( yet seem to have read the whole lot of it ).. unless it's to draw attention to themselves in some weird and wonderful way ?

Toptip 2 :- Threads do not last very long if people aren't bothered or interested enough to post their thoughts on them. This one should've died looooooong ago.. but it hasn't. Mabye I'll start a new one anyway when it does. I've never started one properly before... and call it 'Sturgeon doesn't hate the English but Salmond is still overweight and is out to milk the English taxpayer anyway'.

ps and if no one responds I'll simply keep posting glowing SNP and wonderful pro independence economic updates in it.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Mabye I'll start a new one anyway when it does. I've never started one properly before... and call it 'Sturgeon doesn't hate the English but Salmond is still overweight and is out to milk the English taxpayer anyway'.

Yep, no need to keep deleting posts to prolong this one, just start another when it gets over 10K.

ps and if no one responds I'll simply keep posting glowing SNP and wonderful pro independence economic updates in it.

We'd expect nothing less.

Generali

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yep, no need to keep deleting posts to prolong this one, just start another when it gets over 10K.

Actually it's me. I'm doing a PN. I wondered if anyone would notice.

As people have been rubbing their hands about the demise of this thread I thought I might pump some life into it

zagubov

I think this thread died so long ago that it is clearly now only being animated by the dark arts in a macabre experiment to determine whether you can get both a ghost AND a zombie out of the same corpse. :eek:

Generali

zagubov wrote: »

I think this thread died so long ago that it is clearly now only being animated by the dark arts in a macabre experiment to determine whether you can get both a ghost AND a zombie out of the same corpse. :eek:

That you are not interested is neither here nor there. Gazillions of posts about model trains, toffee and the tax system in Mozambique continue on daily across the interwebs without your input or judgement.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yep, no need to keep deleting posts to prolong this one, just start another when it gets over 10K.

I didn't even know you could delete your own posts on here ? On my own forum only mods and Admin can do so ( I think mass deletions ruin them for reading ). But there you go, learn something new everyday.

We'd expect nothing less.

Sigh, someone's got to keep you all on your toes. You need a token SNP pro independence acolyte round these Scottish threads to keep things interesting.;)

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I didn't even know you could delete your own posts on here ? On my own forum only mods and Admin can do so ( I think mass deletions ruin them for reading ). But there you go, learn something new everyday.

Sigh, someone's got to keep you all on your toes. You need a token SNP pro independence acolyte round these Scottish threads to keep things interesting.;)

Ah yes. I enjoy nothing more than sitting down to enjoy the 'English Fish Fatface Scotland' thread of a cold winter evening. Starting from page one all the way up to post nine thousand and something.

I savour every twist and turn like a good book. I particularly like the bits where some people say Scotland is going to be independent of the UK and then some other people say it isn't.