Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

Genuine question.

What do you suggest the 1/3 to just under 1/2 of Scottish voters who vote No to the independence option actually do?

Presumably, by your definition, they are unwilling to accept the economic consequences.

And yes, this means people like Hamish, who do pretty well out of the current Union.

Establishing a newly independent country on a fragile economic base provides a ready made opportunity for an Unionist movement which will use any bump in the road to remind everybody how much better things were "in the good old days".

I guess they'll just have to accept it and get over it. Or else leave. There's little really that can be done if/when it becomes obvious that a majority of Scots voters want to leave the UK. It's also the reason Westminster will have little in the way of stopping it happening via blocking another referendum. If a clear majority of Scots want out, what point really would there be in blocking it.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Swinney urged to pass "final hurdle" on fiscal framework as deadlock continues
and what is the problem?
So it's the same old story, the SNP asking for the unfair and impossible, manoeuvring, regardless of the consequences for Scotland, for an excuse to walk away from the Devolution Settlement and start on a never-ending process of whinge and no action.

They want promises and agreements made kept. Scottish Labour are in full support.

Kezia Dugdale 15/2/16

Taking on responsibility for Scottish taxes means we should shoulder the risks but it shouldn’t mean losing the rewards we get from being part of the UK and the system that shares money out across the country. It’s absolutely right that Nicola Sturgeon should be arguing for this, as Labour always has. This is the glue that holds together the system of pooling and sharing across the UK and we’re all stronger for it.

There is now broad agreement amongst the parties here that the Barnett Formula – the calculation that determines how much money we have to spend on our public services - is a good thing that benefits Scotland and anything that puts it at risk should be resisted.

The deal that is struck between the two governments will largely decide how much money the Scottish Government has to spend on schools and the NHS not just now but for many years in to the future.

Read more at http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/kezia-dugdale-bold-decisions-needed-7370687#wxcLKmDjL2dOdrcq.99

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

They want promises and agreements made kept. ...

Rubbish - agreements are being kept from the UK side, you have in mind the SNP wish list, not reality. The mendacious SNP are the ones who can't keep agreements.

But if the would-be parasitic SNP walk away from the talks - OK do it, Take it or leave it.

browniej

Shakethedisease wrote: »

There's little really that can be done if/when it becomes obvious that a majority of Scots voters want to leave the UK.

Seems there is no appetite for another referendum just now, never mind to actually leave the UK.

Please, not again - Scots oppose new independence vote

NICOLA Sturgeon is under pressure to rule out another referendum after a poll found only a third of Scots want one.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Rubbish - agreements are being kept from the UK side, you have in mind the SNP wish list, not reality. The mendacious SNP are the ones who can't keep agreements.

But if the would-be parasitic SNP walk away from the talks - OK do it, Take it or leave it.

If you honestly feel that what was sold to Scots just before the referendum and via Smith is what's on offer right now. Then that's fair enough. However, from my own point of view Swinney is right to stick to his guns.

Because many feel that what's on offer was definitely not what Cameron, Miliband and Clegg were vowing. Nor Gordon Brown with his dramatic pacing and thundering about near federalism. Swinney has support from cross party MSP's on the Devolution committee, the cross party Scottish Affairs Committee at Westminster, Scottish Labour, the STUC and a host of others as well as half the electorate. He will have no problem walking away. Most of us see things for what they are. No better than a fiscal trap. No deal being better than a bad deal for Scotland.

The Committee heard from leading economists that any method of adjusting the block grant that required Scotland to increase revenues at a faster rate than the rest of the UK just to maintain current spending levels would be unfair and breach the principles of no detriment.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/scottish-affairs/chair-to-greg-hands-hmt-150216.pdf

Shakethedisease

browniej wrote: »

Seems there is no appetite for another referendum just now, never mind to actually leave the UK.

Please, not again - Scots oppose new independence vote

NICOLA Sturgeon is under pressure to rule out another referendum after a poll found only a third of Scots want one.

Less than half ? That's a weird way of loud hailing lack of support for something if you ask me. The poll was conducted by 'Scotland in Union'. One can only imagine the push polling questions in it. The media in Scotland really are at grasping at straws level's these days.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

If you honestly feel that what was sold to Scots just before the referendum and via Smith is what's on offer right now. Then that's fair enough. However, from my own point of view Swinney is right to stick to his guns.

Because many feel that what's on offer was definitely not what Cameron, Miliband and Clegg were vowing. Nor Gordon Brown with his dramatic pacing and thundering about near federalism. Swinney has support from cross party MSP's on the Devolution committee, the cross party Scottish Affairs Committee at Westminster, Scottish Labour, the STUC and a host of others as well as half the electorate. He will have no problem walking away. Most of us see things for what they are. No better than a fiscal trap. No deal being better than a bad deal for Scotland.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/scottish-affairs/chair-to-greg-hands-hmt-150216.pdf

I would prefer the simple approach.

1 Given that income taxes in the UK go at present into the general UK pot, and that some proportion of income tax therefore goes towards the UK-wide responsibilities, then it would be reasonable that the income tax take in Scotland were reduced by that proportion which is no longer being contributed to UK Koffers. I don't know how much that would be but presume it would be in the low percentages (10% or so).

2 Scotland gets to use the bulk of the income tax on carrying out the new responsibilities that they have under the agreement, the remainder either being off-set against extra income derived from point 4 or, in the interests of simplicity Scotland simply gets to keep the lot and item 4 is dropped.

3 If Scotland raises or lowers the income tax in Scotland over or below the common UK rates, then it gets extra money or less money according to its own choice.

4 Given that the cost of exercising those responsibilities will change according to the cost of living, which is not under Scotland's control for a large part, there needs to be an adjustment made, normally an addition, which could simply be an amount calculated on the cost of living.


Presumably it is more complicated than that, but not, I suspect not much more complicated unless people want to make it so.

I want an arrangement which is fair to Scotland and the UK, which the SNP palpably do not (assuming wildly for the moment that they want an agreement). But I don't buy any argument based on keeping Scots in the manner to which the SNP wants them to become accustomed and still expecting the UK to pay for it.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Blimey Thrugelmir is back on about Salmond again lol,

Salmond appears to make his own news. Goes on radio to answer questions frankly and guess what he doesn't. Hardly new politics is it. Much like your goodself . Westminster, Tories , Anti austerity. Same old record. Boy does it get boring. One day you'll realise that the UK is marching relentlessly on. While the SNP continue to dig a large hole for themselves. The questions that need answering are very simple.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Introducing a system whereby Scotland has to produce both economic and population growth at rates never seen before, just to stay as we are.

Congratulations.

You've just described the economic reality of independence.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Less than half ? That's a weird way of loud hailing lack of support for something if you ask me. The poll was conducted by 'Scotland in Union'. One can only imagine the push polling questions in it. The media in Scotland really are at grasping at straws level's these days.

The poll was conducted by YouGov and paid for by Scotland in Union.